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Thread: Another school shooting, multiple fatalities

  1. #181
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    I have taken the ALICE training and although who knows what one would do in a crisis, I found it helpful in just thinking through the options available. I hate that kids even need to think about this in a place they go to learn, but that is the sad reality of our current culture.

  2. #182
    Senior Member bae's Avatar
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    I participate several times a year in active-shooter training - my agency goes into such things side-by-side with our local law enforcement. I keep body armor, a mass casualty medical kit, a triage kit, and my forcible entry tools handy for when this sort of thing may happen.

    Here it is a bit problematic, as our main K-12 school campus has multiple buildings and hundreds of students, and there is likely only a single sheriff on duty who can respond, and his response time may be 30+ minutes. He can likely have backup within 15 minutes. Whereas we can have 20 of my department’s members there within 3-5 minutes, 40 within 10 minutes, and 60-80 of us within 30 minutes.

    So do you wait around for the sheriff, when half the department probably has kids inside that school?

    Reading up on the Beslan incident is a bit interesting...

  3. #183
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    Some people are missing the point: it is already illegal to take a gun on the campus of a K-12 school.

    There are lots more parts of this complex issue that need to be addressed.

    Arming teachers with firearms is not a viable solution. Period. End of discussion.

  4. #184
    Senior Member Williamsmith's Avatar
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    In bae’s situation, his agency is the best first response. I would suggest a serious sit down with the Sheriff because his resources which he can bring to bear for an incident like this is negligible. The Sheriff has no real way to intervene or confront an attacker who could complete a mission within a ten minute time frame and in most cases would run out of ammo before a deputy could even arrive. You need to have one on duty at the school......and one committed to the obligation to run toward the threat.

    But if bae’s members can muster as quickly as he documents above, they ought to be planning to do just that and not wait for law enforcement. Yes, there is federal law prohibiting carrying guns on school property, as far as I know all states have a similar law and school boards have policy. Absent a specific exemption in the code there is a defense to committing a violation of the crimes code if one is seeking to stop a more serious violation from occurring. In this sort of case, anyone who came to the aid of that school would be exempted from prosecution.

    I am not against the theory of a teacher with a gun confronting an evil entity with evil intentions. I am convinced those who would carry out this policy would set misguided rules for engagement, carry and cause more problems than solutions. I think a teacher can certainly be part of the solution but I do not think taking a cue from the President is the mechanism by which this happens. Federal leadership is unnecessary ; federal funding is. And federal funding is necessary only because of the way we are taxed. Communities are able to better construct responses to the threat. States need to create a training program addressing security in their public schools. Money needs to be spent on making schools less penetrable.

  5. #185
    Senior Member Williamsmith's Avatar
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    You know instead of arming teachers....I just heard the perfect solution. It would require no additional cost to the taxpayer nor any additional training. We will just let the military teach our kids!

  6. #186
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    Quote Originally Posted by mschrisgo2 View Post
    Period. End of discussion.
    Well, this is a discussion board, after all

  7. #187
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    Quote Originally Posted by Williamsmith View Post
    You know instead of arming teachers....I just heard the perfect solution. It would require no additional cost to the taxpayer nor any additional training. We will just let the military teach our kids!
    So those of us like me, who were declared 4F when I attempted enlistment, would not be allowed? (as well as no special education students, etc)
    Hardcore troublemakers would get sentenced to Marine education school.
    Physical fitness levels would go up, discipline would go up, more people in schools would learn how to shoot, etc. etc. etc..

  8. #188
    Senior Member jp1's Avatar
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    Personally I think we should just let our kids go to school in the capital, the white house, or just about any courthouse in the country. Either that or we should start letting guns into all those places and then see what kind of changes ensue.

  9. #189
    Senior Member flowerseverywhere's Avatar
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    How about abolishing the secret service, getting rid of the metal detectors in DC buildings like the senate office building and White House, and getting rid of the snipers on the roofs, and all the federal buildings in the land. We could allow senators, secretaries, aides, cleaning persons etc to carry and they can protect themselves.

  10. #190
    Senior Member flowerseverywhere's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bae View Post
    I participate several times a year in active-shooter training - my agency goes into such things side-by-side with our local law enforcement. I keep body armor, a mass casualty medical kit, a triage kit, and my forcible entry tools handy for when this sort of thing may happen.

    Here it is a bit problematic, as our main K-12 school campus has multiple buildings and hundreds of students, and there is likely only a single sheriff on duty who can respond, and his response time may be 30+ minutes. He can likely have backup within 15 minutes. Whereas we can have 20 of my department’s members there within 3-5 minutes, 40 within 10 minutes, and 60-80 of us within 30 minutes.

    So do you wait around for the sheriff, when half the department probably has kids inside that school?

    Reading up on the Beslan incident is a bit interesting...
    i did not recall the Beslan incident. What a horrible scene that must have been, with cover-ups, fake news, unbelievable suffering of the children and adults and political corruption.

    Out of all the posters here, you and Alan seem to have the ability to be able to do exactly what Trump is proposing. I may have missed someone who has extensive experience and training, though who would have the wherewithal to be effective in a situation like this. The large majority of us, no matter what training we had, would be totally unfit to take out a shooter in a classroom. Especially one with the weapon he had, and who may have on defensive protective gear. Even the first law enforcement and the armed guard sheltered outside the school behind cars. And they had years of experience and training. And weapons they were trained to use.

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