Another school shooting, multiple fatalities

[gimmethesimplelife]

If/when they are insulting you, it isn't disrespecting family, it is respecting yourself and simply not interacting in an abusive situation.
If caller ID had been a thing, that I would have had, it would have saved me from the deathbed "conversation" (I was wrongly taught not to talk back to dying, it isn't always right), where my great aunt told me how I shouldn't have been born and was so like the rapists in the tree. (and I had never met this woman)

Given that there has been a great deal of friction between us on this forum, and given that I don't care to feed into this today, all I'm going to say in reply is that I am sorry that your Great Aunt said this to you. Ouch. That must have been horrible to hear. You have my sympathy here. Rob

[bae]

If the caller-id shows that it is certain of my relatives, I don’t pick up ever. They have continually attacked my father for being gay, have accused my father and I of “turning” their own sons gay, and have nothing but hate and religious spittle to offer. It is out of respect to my own psyche and out of respect to the sane members of our family that I simply don’t engage in banter with those hateful folks.

[gimmethesimplelife]

If the caller-id shows that it is certain of my relatives, I don’t pick up ever. They have continually attacked my father for being gay, have accused my father and I of “turning” their own sons gay, and have nothing but hate and religious spittle to offer. It is out of respect to my own psyche and out of respect to the sane members of our family that I simply don’t engage in banter with those hateful folks.

I see your point here, Bae, and I get it. I am related to some Austrian nationals that I won't speak to as they have issues with my being gay - similar it seems to your relatives having issues with your father - and what really pushed these relatives out of my life was a comment that I deserve to be gassed for being gay - this to put it mildly crossed the line and I will no longer speak to this Aunt and Uncle. Thankfully, most of my family - though a few are very "old Austria" i.e., extremely conservative even by US standards and I don't mean in term of social welfare, I mean in terms of roles one should play in society and how one should think and conduct themselves - most of my family is not like this. The relatives I am in touch with I'd consider fairly open minded and have no issue with my orientation. I am closest to my Cousin Astrid who is 8 days older than me and her husband, and Astrid's Mother, my Aunt and her husband,all of whom live in Vienna. I also have relatives I am in touch with but not as close to in Salzburg, Innsbruck, Graz, and even Linz (Austria's token attempt to resemble Detroit - an old formerly industrial city in sad shape though with a great deal of social welfare injected into it).

These people I am in touch with are basically very good people - they just have a different outlook on life and a different mentality than most Americans. Scary as this may seem to some - their outlook resembles mine overall - with a few exceptions. Something I find interesting is that my family will not go to Hungary to save money on dental (which is not socialized in Austria) - I would do this in a heartbeat. They say that doing such would be disrespectful, something that I don't understand - maybe it's what is American in me that blocks me from understanding this, I don't know.

And I've gotten sidetracked yet again......My point was that I can understand where you are coming from as there are relatives on my Mother's side I won't speak to (very much mutual) and there are relatives on my late Father's side in New England that I will have nothing to do with (once again, very much mutual). So I get your post. And good for you for standing up for your Father, Bae - I know we have had our differences on this board but I just want to say that I very much respect you for standing up for your Father. Kudos! Rob

[Williamsmith]

I know it’s easy to believe that the public conscience has been so numbed by the frequency of these incidents that we’ve fallen victim to the 24 hr newsfeed turnover and quickly forgotten about them. But this incident comes so quickly after the last, has so many of the same characteristics as previous ones that a groundswell of objection is possibly coming.

Many Republicans have bemoaned the fact that this Congress can’t get off their butts long enough to get something done legislatively. Well, I think you might be looking at one of the fastest moving changes in gun control in a long time. It’s going to be accompanied by other more common sense actions but the AR 15s availability to the public is going to be shut off. Just the image of the rifle has become a national disgrace.

Ill tell you how bad its gotten. There are images of children running out of that school with their hands up. They had to step over bodies of their fellow students that were murdered by a person holding an AR15. As they ran, they passed a law enforcement official holding an AR15. They must have seen that gun and even though a police officer was there to help them....had to add more fear on top of their terror.

There are law abiding sportsmen who shoot AR15 platform rifles at ranges and some hunt with them. Some of those people realize that simply being seen with it in their hands engenders certain defense mechanisms from other people. Could it even get to the point of a buy back program for them? I think it could. And the irony is this could happen under a Republican President, and a Republican house and senate and a Supreme Court weighted toward the second amendment.

[Alan]

If we abolish AR15 "assault rifles", what about my Ruger Mini 14? It fires the same ammunition, the same rate of fire and accommodates a 30 round magazine but doesn't look quite as scary. Do you think an "assault rifle" ban would cover this as well?

[Williamsmith]

Of course not Alan. This is about feelings. What response does the image elicit. Your example creates an image of courageous soldiers storming the beaches of Normandy and rescuing the world from tyranny. The image of the AR15 immediately arouses fear and loathing for images of murdered children and chanting white militia members yelling second amendment memes. I know sportmen who won’t own an AR15 but would own a mini 14......are you one?

Of course, the AR15 is first......they can get around to the mini 14 later.

[Alan]

I should have mentioned in the previous post that I already knew the answer to that question, but think it's important for others to think about the difference between an emotional response and a rational response. We should discourage the first and embrace the latter.
As for your final question, I'd be happy with either, although I prefer the cleaner lines of the Mini 14, knowing that there's no functional difference.

[Williamsmith]

Alan, you have to admit that while the mini 14 works on the same principle and is capable of the same rate of fire ...there are features of the AR platform which make it desirable over the mini 14. The ability to accessorize....it’s LEGO like ability to add and subtract features, its light weight, it’s recoil Management, target acquisition and accuracy. It has become an idol that children worship over in fantasy games. Capitalist principles have marketed this thing and made it into an icon. That’s the real genesis of the problem.

In Pennsylvania, we have a gun culture deeper than any in the US but there has been a disagreement over whether to allow AR15 type rifles to be used for hunting larger game. The argument goes well beyond the efficiency of the caliber .223. It goes into the realm of the lack of ethics, using a semiauto and into safety issues....hunters spraying bullets around the woods willynilly.

I just use this this as an example of how easy it is to drum up hatred and disgust for this specific rifle. It has a very tentative acceptance level as we speak and very likely will fall.

[dmc]

I own a Smith and Wesson MP-15. I bought it on a whim when everyone said Hillary was going to win, and of coarse ban them. They are one of the most popular rifles out there, I’m guessing millions. I’ve taken mine and tried it out at the range, it’s ok to shoot, but not nearly my most accurate rifle. And the Shell is pretty small compared to my 30-06 or 7mm mag.

I would not be surprised if they banned them again, I don’t really care one way or the other. If it makes some people feel better. But of coarse where does it end? Is the mini 14 next? How about the high capacity, semi auto 22 I got in the 8 th grade?

And what about the millions already out there? Are they to be confiscated, or grandfathered in. I don’t see buy backs working, the last one I saw in St. Louis was giving $50 gift certificates. I’ve never heard of buy backs paying fair market value.

[iris lilies]

I own a Smith and Wesson MP-15. I bought it on a whim when everyone said Hillary was going to win, and of coarse ban them. They are one of the most popular rifles out there, I’m guessing millions. I’ve taken mine and tried it out at the range, it’s ok to shoot, but not nearly my most accurate rifle. And the Shell is pretty small compared to my 30-06 or 7mm mag.

I would not be surprised if they banned them again, I don’t really care one way or the other. If it makes some people feel better. But of coarse where does it end? Is the mini 14 next? How about the high capacity, semi auto 22 I got in the 8 th grade?

And what about the millions already out there? Are they to be confiscated, or grandfathered in. I don’t see buy backs working, the last one I saw in St. Louis was giving $50 gift certificates. I’ve never heard of buy backs paying fair market value.

Dmc we had another gun buyback session in St. Louis just a few months ago.

we are still trending dor no 1 in the country for homicides, so yay us!