Another school shooting, multiple fatalities

[flowerseverywhere]

Yes we have more gun violence then other countries, because we have more guns. Other countries have more knife violence, car violence, bomb making, etc. because of access. We even have that stuff here, and yet we are not blaming knives, alcohol, cars or other inanimate objects.

What are you basing this on?
Europe has a Homicide rate of 3 per 100,000 inhabitants. The America’s are over 16. The US is almost 5.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List..._homicide_rate

[Alan]

Id like to get Alan to comeback and respond to his idea of arming school teachers. We can agree mass shootings are rare compared to the school days logged without incident. The CDC reports that roughly 2000 high school age students committed suicide in a years time. As an armed teacher would you be prepared to shoot and kill a student who brought a facsimile handgun to school and pulled it out in the middle of class? He’s standing in the middle of class with what looks like a Glock 19 and you are armed. Within seconds you have to discharge at least a round into him without harming other students. If you accomplish this, then you find out he has a dummy gun and just wanted to die.

Incidents like this will happen. In fact, there will be incidents where teachers will be making split second decisions of shoot don’t shoot and I’m not sure any teacher wants that responsibility or should have to bear that responsibility.

Now whta kind of liability do the tax payers of that school district incur?

I'm happy to discuss just about any subject at any time although I'd have to first correct your initial presumption that I want to arm teachers. The fact is I'd like to de-criminalize the possession of legal weapons at schools, thus allowing responsible teachers to be armed if they so desired. (As an aside, my wife works in the Autism unit for the local elementary school, would you believe that every teacher in that unit possesses a concealed carry permit. Weird huh?)

Of course there are always fears of liability and fear of doing the wrong thing, but in your example I'd have to weigh the risks of being played by some suicidal kid with the possibility that the kid intended to take out the class. There is no good choice there, but one is better than the other. Liability be damned.

[Williamsmith]

I'm happy to discuss just about any subject at any time although I'd have to first correct your initial presumption that I want to arm teachers. The fact is I'd like to de-criminalize the possession of legal weapons at schools, thus allowing responsible teachers to be armed if they so desired. (As an aside, my wife works in the Autism unit for the local elementary school, would you believe that every teacher in that unit possesses a concealed carry permit. Weird huh?)

Of course there are always fears of liability and fear of doing the wrong thing, but in your example I'd have to weigh the risks of being played by some suicidal kid with the possibility that the kid intended to take out the class. There is no good choice there, but one is better than the other. Liability be damned.

Alan you either have a higher level of tolerance for unintended consequences than I do or more confidence in the average concealed carry permitee. Given that obtaining a concealed carry permit is easier than obtaining a drivers license....in my county....do you have a pulse? And you’re not a felon are you? Bam , go forth and carry!

You don’t have to demonstrate any knowledge of the firearm, any safety IQ, no competency in placing rounds in their intended location, no demonstration of knowledge of basic justification and legal issues. Just Bam...go forth and carry.

I see #studentslivesmatter in our future.

Now if you are going to conduct training for teachers....who trains,how much training who pays for the training? And finally I’ll say this. My academy trained police officers for 21 weeks. Accidental and negligent discharges were not uncommon. In one training academy, an instructor took out a handgun he thought was unloaded and discharged it with the round killing a student Trooper. One such incident in school would prove the folly of that strategy......and we have 15 million school student k-12 at any one time.

[Alan]

Williamsmith, I can see that you're heavily invested in the belief that only law enforcement personnel should be trusted with the burden of protection. I was too years ago but am no longer sure of that.

The fact is that we have developed a violent culture and every single person deserves the right and opportunity to protect themselves and those under their charge, as well as those who would rather relinquish that responsibility to others. I can't in good conscience stand in their way.

[flowerseverywhere]

Maybe it’s a staged conspiracy by Trump haters

https://www.rushlimbaugh.com/daily/2...political/amp/

https://www.thedailybeast.com/donald...ors-ex-fbi-dad

[flowerseverywhere]

And don't Forget, Twitter is out to silence the right

http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-43144717

watch out. House to house gun confiscation is next.

[JaneV2.0]

Williamsmith, I can see that you're heavily invested in the belief that only law enforcement personnel should be trusted with the burden of protection. I was too years ago but am no longer sure of that.

The fact is that we have developed a violent culture and every single person deserves the right and opportunity to protect themselves and those under their charge, as well as those who would rather relinquish that responsibility to others. I can't in good conscience stand in their way.

Actually, the rate of violent crime in this country has been dropping steadily for years. http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank...me-in-the-u-s/

[Alan]

Actually, the rate of violent crime in this country has been dropping steadily for years. http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank...me-in-the-u-s/

That's true, but it doesn't mean violence doesn't exist. The residents of St. Louis and Baltimore and Chicago and Detroit and Houston and Philadelphia and New York City still deserve the ability to protect themselves, even if some of their local governments disagree. And, everybody else in every other part of the world deserves the same right to protect themselves from those rare individuals who are determined to immortalize themselves by killing or injuring as many people as possible in one planned event. At least I think so, YMMV.

[JaneV2.0]

I agree with the "well-regulated militia" part of the second amendment. I believe in training and licensing for owners of handguns and rifles. I see no reason people not actively part of the police or military should own military-style weapons. I don't recall a time when I felt it was necessary to arm myself--even when I had a stalker. The thought never crossed my mind.

[Williamsmith]

I agree with the "well-regulated militia" part of the second amendment. I believe in training and licensing for owners of handguns and rifles. I see no reason people not actively part of the police or military should own military-style weapons. I don't recall a time when I felt it was necessary to arm myself--even when I had a stalker. The thought never crossed my mind.

Im quite comfortable arguing that the “well regulated militia” actually refers to the citizenship and not the police (modern day policing did not exist until the turn of the 20th century) nor the military....we have had a separate military force since day one. The farmers and artisans of revolutionary America were required to maintain and have ready a rifle , a specific amount of ammunition and based on your ability possibly more for the defense of the state. Participation was even mandatory based on age.

THe problem is with our professional military ...the founding fathers disagreed about the necessity for a standing army...and our paid law enforcement, training our militia has fallen by the wayside and in fact much Of the citizenry is afraid of firearms, many are untrained and a few are down right dangerous with them.

I dont know where the compromise is but I know that restricting it to military and the police is not the answer. Not in this country.