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Thread: Another school shooting, multiple fatalities

  1. #81
    Senior Member flowerseverywhere's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chicken lady View Post
    I am a teacher.

    i do not want to take a bullet for your child.
    i do not want to put a bullet in your child.

    i am a mother.
    and I watched my children and their friends grow up, and I love them. But for a long time, they were idiots. if you don’t think you can trust them with beer, why in the hell would you let them have a gun?

    Gun (you can arm a kid who is too young to drive)
    Car
    vote
    Beer

    personally, I think it should be
    beer,
    car,
    vote,
    gun.
    Teachers have enough responsibility. You go to school to learn reading, writing and arithmetic. Teachers are always on the lookout for signals of abuse or neglect and do their duty to report per the law. Most teachers I have known really care about their charges and helping them build the foundation, then the supporting structure, then the finishing touches on skills that will remain with them for the rest of their lives. My young grandchildren are learning geography, Spanish, science...the list is endless of what they are exposed to. When I look at the kind sweet teachers who give my elementary age grandchildren so much I could never imagine them shooting someone. They seem so devoted and kind but firm to their charges as it should be with young children . Many people, like me, have never touched a gun. I would not be good in a shooting. Teachers have so much responsibility as it is their time can surely be put to better use.

  2. #82
    Williamsmith
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    Reasonable minds will conclude that teaching and security are independent efforts. A teachers relationship to students changes if you introduce a gun into the situation. Let teachers do what they do best, teach. Hire professional security for the school. We do it at courthouses and airports and government buildings , we just have to value our children as much as we value Judges, passengers and elected officials.

  3. #83
    Senior Member razz's Avatar
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    There is something very, very wrong when every part of one's life needs a security detail attached.

    Thought is ever father and mother to the deed.

    IMHO, what is needed is outrage and rebellion to take back control of our communities and institutions by citizens themselves. What is defeating whole societies around the world? It is lack of competent leadership providing strong positive standards of exemplary behaviour plus apathy and fear in the citizens. Until that changes in the thought of each one of us... Who was it that said "We are the change that we want to see".
    As Cicero said, “Gratitude is not only the greatest of virtues, but the parent of all the others.”

  4. #84
    Simpleton Alan's Avatar
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    I'm a certified ALiCE instructor. One of the things we teach is the concept of the OODA Loop . This is a critical aspect of the point in a mass shooting where potential victims are trapped in a confined space with no point of egress except through the shooter. If you have gotten past the point where run or hide are effective defenses and your only option is to fight, upsetting the shooters OODA Loop through throwing cell phones, books, shoes, etc., would be much more effective if you were also throwing .40 caliber rounds at him, but for some reason we've criminalized the ability to do that.
    "Things should be made as simple as possible, but not one bit simpler." ~ Albert Einstein

  5. #85
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    Alan, if you arm teachers, you make me a target.

    i personally will not be armed, but that is irrelevant.

    first, shoot the teacher.

    i vote we disarm everybody under 21 who isn’t required to be armed because of their job, on a shooting range (using a gun owned by a mentor) or hunting under the supervision of someone over 21 instead. Actually, if you are over 18 and have a valid hunting license, i’m Ok with you owning a gun appropriate for the game you are hunting and using it unsupervised.

    the day they allow teachers to carry is my last day.

  6. #86
    Simpleton Alan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chicken lady View Post
    Alan, if you arm teachers, you make me a target.
    In my example you're already a target, the question is whether you're an easy target or a hard target and whether or not you can increase the survivability rate of your students.
    I'm not saying that every teacher should be armed, I'm saying they should have a choice.
    "Things should be made as simple as possible, but not one bit simpler." ~ Albert Einstein

  7. #87
    Williamsmith
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    With all due respect to Alan and his convictions, while having a firearm to answer back at the attacker is obviously best....you can not disregard the consequences of introducing firearms into the school system. There are going to be unintentional discharges, negligent discharges, accidental discharges, thefts, disarming teachers by students, civil and criminal liability for shootings which meet unjustified circumstances. There is a myriad of problems this would create. You would simply make it easier for an attack by providing guns for them.

    In my opinion having interacted with teachers and administrators...this is a recipe for adding turmoil to the situation. The right direction to go is denying access to the school through active and passive defense. The sign on the door that says gun free zone must be more than an expression of politics.....it must really mean you do not bring a gun in here period. And if you try, you will be stopped and possibly killed in the process.

  8. #88
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    And i’m saying that if a shooter expects the teacher to be armed, the teacher is not A target, the teacher is the FIRST target. The person with the gun is now thinking “spot and shoot the teacher” not “terrify and spray the room.” Unless the teacher is someone who will remain calm and steady and has excellent marksmanship, you have just reduced the effectiveness of the teacher. If you select for defense in the unlikely effect of a school shooting - you eliminate a lot of really good teachers and reduce the effectiveness of the actual teaching.

    Here is what I know about myself in a crisis - I will panic. What I do after I panic may or may not be effective, but it will not be rational. Many many times my dh has looked at me and asked “why would you do A” And all I can tell him is “because I didn’t want to do B” B being the result of what I feared would happen if I didn’t do A.

  9. #89
    Simpleton Alan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chicken lady View Post
    And i’m saying that if a shooter expects the teacher to be armed, the teacher is not A target, the teacher is the FIRST target. The person with the gun is now thinking “spot and shoot the teacher” not “terrify and spray the room.” Unless the teacher is someone who will remain calm and steady and has excellent marksmanship, you have just reduced the effectiveness of the teacher. If you select for defense in the unlikely effect of a school shooting - you eliminate a lot of really good teachers and reduce the effectiveness of the actual teaching.

    Here is what I know about myself in a crisis - I will panic. What I do after I panic may or may not be effective, but it will not be rational. Many many times my dh has looked at me and asked “why would you do A” And all I can tell him is “because I didn’t want to do B” B being the result of what I feared would happen if I didn’t do A.
    Not everyone can be a sheepdog, but many can.
    "Things should be made as simple as possible, but not one bit simpler." ~ Albert Einstein

  10. #90
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    The adults in charge have screwed up big time.
    Actually embarrassed that in many cases, we have not been a good example for our youth. Especially our complacency to bring about change for the better. Way too many old people running the show so I hope these teenagers rise up and lead the charge.

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