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Thread: The Purpose of Education

  1. #21
    Senior Member SteveinMN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ApatheticNoMore View Post
    only if the job ads for that career NEVER list bachelors degree under the requirements or even pluses (and aren't ever likely to 10-20 years down the road). And I wonder how many jobs that is really (probably some nursing where you don't need it, hairdresser maybe. But a lot of things company PAD requirements at this point). Because if it's the kind of job that may be a skilled trade but still preferences candidates with a degree better to get that.
    I suspect the companies that fix our cars and inspect our furnace do not require degrees to join the company and move up the ladder. I might expect the person who owns the car store to have a degree in business but I do not expect that of the sales reps. While things have changed some over the last decade or so, IT still offers successful futures for people without degrees in the field or, sometimes, without any degree at all. Certification? Skills training? Sure. But not tens (or hundreds) of thousands in college debt.

    Quote Originally Posted by bae
    But, if people like my daughter only focused on $$$, entire realms of human knowledge would just wink out
    Your daughter will have the benefit of not having to service a student loan of a couple hundred thousand dollars. Others' kids are not so blessed. Getting skills training in a field that enables a person to put food on their table and to pay the bills that come with adult life does not obviate humanities education.

    I have an interest in architecture; I don't need to get a degree in it to learn (more) about architecture and enjoy it or even apply some of its principles to where I live. I can read great literature or write poetry; there are plenty of resources around for those who want to learn.

    There always will be people who either don't need the money or are okay with living a lower-income life to pursue their dreams. But as workplaces continue to change, the idea that everyone needs at least a Bachelor's degree to get in the door needs to be recognized for the outmoded idea that it is.
    Success is to be measured not so much by the position that one has reached in life as by the obstacles which he has overcome. - Booker T. Washington

  2. #22
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    I suspect the companies that fix our cars and inspect our furnace do not require degrees to join the company and move up the ladder. I might expect the person who owns the car store to have a degree in business but I do not expect that of the sales reps.
    sales is it's own thing, it's the one career they might take you with really a record where noone else would hire you, just sink or swim buddy, and they'll find out if you are cut out to sell or not.

    While things have changed some over the last decade or so, IT still offers successful futures for people without degrees in the field or, sometimes, without any degree at all. Certification? Skills training? Sure. But not tens (or hundreds) of thousands in college debt.
    A degree is so much better if that's what you want to do. Cal State tuition might run you under 30k plus the cost of books for 4 years (I checked), some shitty coding bootcamp is going to cost you 10-20k for training that literally noone is going to care about in a few years (they will always care that you at least got a degree), and some companies will flat out reject for lack of a degree as a matter of policy, and the others who are getting 100 resumes plus for each ad may use it as a filter (*some* won't even care what subject it is in - so yea the person with the basket weaving, ok not really but humanities anyway, degree will move in line before the person without a degree any day). Anyway I don't think everyone needs to get a degree for the sake of their souls (and frankly if literally everyone got one for the sake of their economics they would be nearly 100% worthless economically), just if it is something that is going to matter at all in one's chosen field then it is likely worth it.

    Even focusing on trades might be a distraction from the actual economy we live in, there may be a real need for trades people and so some people might really benefit from going that route *IF* it suits them (the blue collar world is a different world to adapt to though if it's not what one is used to, but not all trades are blue collar - medical isn't), but even more than a need for trades people OR white collar people with degrees, it is still an economy made up to a large degree of low paid service work, for which there is a large need, but hardly pays enough to live off of.
    Last edited by ApatheticNoMore; 3-15-18 at 11:44am.
    Trees don't grow on money

  3. #23
    Moderator Float On's Avatar
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    Son #1 went to a college that was only a humanities program. Everyone comes out with the same degree. It was expensive but he had an incredible scholarship and enough in his college investment account to take care of 4 years there. Then he would of needed to go on for something else more specialized. It depressed him greatly when he realized even though he had his funding in place he was the poorest one there and none of his classmates were ever going to need to work for a living (trust fund babies). He couldn't handle that kind of life pressure and bottomed out and flunked out! His college investment fund is still sitting there growing and he thinks he'll give college a try again but a university with actual degrees.
    Float On: My "Happy Place" is on my little kayak in the coves of Table Rock Lake.

  4. #24
    Williamsmith
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    My poor perspective requires me to seek altitude to gain another’s view. Virtually nobody in my extended family reached the upper middle class, let’s see ......a state trooper, a mailman, an insurance salesman, an insurance adjuster, a secretary for an insurance agency, a state museum curator, a school receptionist, one who married up after divorcing her first. It’s our position in life. Rarely does anyone venture to the elite or even the upper crust. Mostly, I suspect we scoff at those educated at the masters and PhD levels. There’s still a touch of jealousy there, no doubt. What separates the happy from the not so happy regarding their career path is almost unbelievable but it’s the constant staving off of the threat that healthcare costs poses. Sans that......I suspect we are a bunch of contented dolts.

  5. #25
    Senior Member bae's Avatar
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    I was the first in my family to graduate from college.

    During the first 15-20 years of my career, nobody ever asked me if I had a degree, what it was in, or where I went.

  6. #26
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    There was a job nearby and well qualified for that I was told straight out the manager wouldn't consider without a degree (which I don't have, so you see ...). This isn't some generalization about nobody will hire without a degree etc. because that's not true, but a job right where I live, doing what I wanted to do, where I was otherwise well qualified. Ah well, we do pay for our choices (well mostly my choices have been pretty good considering all the obstacles (when young I was impatient to get out in the world and then I don't know, I was just busy living I guess). But wish I had the paper, maybe someday, even a liberal arts degree would open a few doors that aren't open now. If I really didn't care about learning anything practical I'd do sociology or something haha ).
    Trees don't grow on money

  7. #27
    Williamsmith
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    Upon further review, several of my high school buddies earned engineering degrees from Big Ten schools and one from Carnegie Mellon University. I’m sure they have done fine for themselves, own a second home in the sunny south, have paid for their kids college degrees and probably own a nice sports car. My best man at my wedding didn’t want to go to college, he became a mailman, is still working...worries about how far his retirement money will go and is about as frugal as they come. So I guess, I done okay.

  8. #28
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    I don't know WS your extended family seems to have what are (or were) solid middle class jobs. The problem is those jobs are becoming less middle class (mailperson is all contract labor now, it was once a steady job) and harder to get (hard to get a job in a school district or in government period doing reception work, hard to get a museum curator job etc..).
    Trees don't grow on money

  9. #29
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    My brother was a certified civil engineer running his own business when he decided he needed a good retirement and health insurance. Went to work as a mail carrier 20 years ago and has retired. It is incredibly hard to get any kind of government job. When I went back to work in 2000 after a 3 year absence, it took over 90 days to get thru the system and I had over 25 years doing a much higher graded work in the same agency and same office. Just paperwork.

  10. #30
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    Yea government work can be hard to get, 200 some people in a room taking a test for a single position and I doubt that is everyone who applies either. And then with some local government you get a bunch of points if you are applying for a new position and you you've already worked for the government, which kind of makes it really hard for those who haven't worked for government to get an in at all, because no matter how good a candidate they otherwise are, they have to compete with all these people with bonus points already.
    Trees don't grow on money

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