The Purpose of Education

[razz]

Dear WS, you don't know how long you are going to live despite all kinds of prognoses and such like. Stephen Hawking was given 4 years after the ALS diagnosis in his late 20's, I believe, and just passed away at 76, almost 50 years later.

You have the talent based on your contributions on this site. Go for the creative writing adventure! I dare you!

[bae]

Is "earning" the important thing?

My daughter is embarked upon a Ph.D. program in such a narrow field of study that the only job she can expect to get is probably in that same department. I just wrote a $200k check to pay off her undergraduate loans. I can't imagine there will ever be an economic payback for her investment.

But, if people like my daughter only focused on $$$, entire realms of human knowledge would just wink out.

[Teacher Terry]

Bae, your daughter will not be saddled with student loans which makes a huge difference. I spent a good part of my career evaluating and helping people decide on their career path. Some went to college, some to technical schools for blue collar jobs, some to apprenticeships and some right to work. Our agency would assist in paying for higher education and had a say in what we paid for according to the local or national job market depending if they were willing to move or not. Maybe you have a gift in art or music-they are great hobbies but not likely to lead to a decent job. Since the intent of the program was to help people with disabilities get back to work it was my job to help people be realistic. My ex had a master's degree in math but gave up professional work when he was making so little that he had a second job as a janitor at night. He became a tool & die maker and made fabulous $. It paid for my 3 colleges degrees, kids etc. Yes humanities are important to be well rounded and great as electives but not likely to lead to a career path.

[bae]

Stephen Hawking was given 4 years after the ALS diagnosis in his late 20's, I believe, and just passed away at 76, almost 50 years later.

I spent a good chunk of today reading his Ph.D. thesis. I think he was 24 when he finished this up, just a couple of years after his initial diagnosis, and about a year after he was supposed to be dead.

https://www.repository.cam.ac.uk/handle/1810/251038

It is a *wonderful* paper, I'd never sat down to read it fully through before. His wit and spirit shine through, even during the mathy bits. He avoided (except for Chapter 3) the temptation to simply present a wall-o-math, and sprinkles the explanatory text with humor (well, a lot of it is physics humor) and he takes great pains to introduce and explain the concepts and techniques he will be working with, so much so that I was able to read and appreciate the paper after being out of the physics business for many decades now.

It was a great way to spend the day.

[Williamsmith]

I spent a good chunk of today reading his Ph.D. thesis. I think he was 24 when he finished this up, just a couple of years after his initial diagnosis, and about a year after he was supposed to be dead.

https://www.repository.cam.ac.uk/handle/1810/251038

It is a *wonderful* paper, I'd never sat down to read it fully through before. His wit and spirit shine through, even during the mathy bits. He avoided (except for Chapter 3) the temptation to simply present a wall-o-math, and sprinkles the explanatory text with humor (well, a lot of it is physics humor) and he takes great pains to introduce and explain the concepts and techniques he will be working with, so much so that I was able to read and appreciate the paper after being out of the physics business for many decades now.

It was a great way to spend the day.

Bae, I clicked on the link and read the Abstract. I take your word for it that a wonderful paper follows. I much prefer the shorter version.......”Properties Of expanding Universes....or Big Bang” by Barenaked Ladies

https://youtu.be/CMSYv_Z4SI8

[Williamsmith]

Dear WS, you don't know how long you are going to live despite all kinds of prognoses and such like. Stephen Hawking was given 4 years after the ALS diagnosis in his late 20's, I believe, and just passed away at 76, almost 50 years later.

You have the talent based on your contributions on this site. Go for the creative writing adventure! I dare you!

Razz, you are too kind. Much tooooooooo kind.

[happystuff]

Definitely a case of semantics, but I like to think I am continuously "learning" even if I'm not getting a formal "education" any longer.

[LDAHL]

Is "earning" the important thing?

My daughter is embarked upon a Ph.D. program in such a narrow field of study that the only job she can expect to get is probably in that same department. I just wrote a $200k check to pay off her undergraduate loans. I can't imagine there will ever be an economic payback for her investment.

But, if people like my daughter only focused on $$$, entire realms of human knowledge would just wink out.

And that's why we should all be grateful for patrons of culture like you and Lorenzo de' Medici.

But, lacking other resources, most people need to focus on more practical matters (hopefully not entirely) out of necessity.

We view education from so many different aspects. We want it to make us better, more thoughtful and interesting people (although we often slip into indoctrination). We want professional credentials. We want status markers. We want to make contacts for business and social purposes. And we try to obtain those things through a university system that hasn't changed that much since the Middle Ages. Maybe it's time to reconsider our service delivery system. Surely in this new century there are technologies available to provide and certify competence in almost any field more efficiently than we're doing now. Or simply provide structured opportunities for learning for its own sake.

I'm not sure why we haven't made more serious efforts there. Do our elites prefer the current system as a sort of barrier to entry? Are the upper ranks of the academy preserving their status and privileges? Are employers fearful of testing competence in various areas without regard to degrees? Do the middle and upper classes need somewhere to park their children in what seems to be an ever-longer period before independent adulthood?

[catherine]

And that's why we should all be grateful for patrons of culture like you and Lorenzo de' Medici.

But, lacking other resources, most people need to focus on more practical matters (hopefully not entirely) out of necessity.

We view education from so many different aspects. We want it to make us better, more thoughtful and interesting people (although we often slip into indoctrination). We want professional credentials. We want status markers. We want to make contacts for business and social purposes. And we try to obtain those things through a university system that hasn't changed that much since the Middle Ages. Maybe it's time to reconsider our service delivery system. Surely in this new century there are technologies available to provide and certify competence in almost any field more efficiently than we're doing now. Or simply provided structured opportunity for learning for its own sake.

I'm not sure why we haven't made more serious efforts there. Do our elites prefer the current system as a sort of barrier to entry? Are the upper ranks of the academy preserving their status and privileges? Are employers fearful of testing competence in various areas without regard to degrees? Do the middle and upper classes need somewhere to park their children in what seems to be an ever-longer period before independent adulthood?

Great points. Personally, I love learning. It's the only satisfying part of my job in market research--it forces me to learn a little about many different healthcare conditions. I love reading Shakespeare and watching Air Disasters on the Smithsonian Channel, and reading the lightweight non-fiction of Bill Bryson, and going to my Master Gardener's class which gives me a solid credential as a poseur in botany.

But then there's son #1 who dropped out of high school, became a golf professional, and then a college student and then a lawyer--the reasons for his untraditional trajectory are touched on in your post. Then there's my other son who is a self-taught musician/singer/songwriter, who waits tables as his "day job" and pays his bills but constantly feels that he is an underperformer according to society's standards--especially when he's out there on Bumbler meeting potential life partners. I have tried to turn him on to Ansel Adams, Suelo, the Nearing's, and all those who value non-monetary raisons-d'etre but it's hard. He is doing exactly what he loves but he feels it's not good enough even in a city like Burlington, VT.

One time I was in the supermarket line, and one of my neighbors (typical NJ soccer/heicopter mom) stood behind me. Our sons had played soccer together at an earlier time--they were both now adults. She asked how my son was doing. This was when he was a pro golfer, and I proudly told her about his job teaching golf and traveling all over the South getting to work outside and do something he loves.

"Huhn" she snorted. "At least that's better than working at McDonalds."

Gosh darn those elites you speak of, LDAHL.

[pinkytoe]

I volunteer at a public school kindergarten. It is interesting to see how we train our little kiddos to be cogs in a wheel from an early age. I can already pick out the ones who will have trouble making it through the system as their little brains are wired to be creative and spontaneous.