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Thread: Communication! (Maybe)

  1. #11
    Senior Member razz's Avatar
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    I keep a physical object around long enough to note what has to be done with it (empty TP core reminds me that I need to check the bathroom's stock; empty spice container reminds me I need to put paprika on the grocery list; etc.). I'm also OCdisciplined enough to put things (car keys, cooking thermometer, and so on) in the same places every time so I know where they are when I reach for them.
    I do this all the time and thought it was the normal thing to do, Dilbert notwithstanding . I really dislike it when someone interrupts my pattern by removing the reminder items or relocating them. I also do the lists to ensure that everything gets done eventually.
    As Cicero said, “Gratitude is not only the greatest of virtues, but the parent of all the others.”

  2. #12
    Senior Member iris lilies's Avatar
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    While I so,etimes keep a physical object around as a reminder, that can backfire. If it too big, or if you cant get around to dealing with the thing for a while, it is clutter.

    DH does that and sometimes this stuff gets in the way.

    I say put the thing in a To Do list and move the clutter out of your house.

  3. #13
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    For me, out of sight, out of mind. Including the todo list.

    when I have to remember something very important, I write it on a piece of tape and tape it to my arm. The tape tugging on my skin reminds me to look at it.

    on the topic of communication, iris lilies, your response makes me think of my dh.

    this is how I perceive it:
    “I say put the thing in a To Do list and move the clutter out of your house.” = “The thing you do, and therefor the way your brain works, is wrong. You should do the thing I do because my brain works the correct way and my thing is the universal right thing to do.”

    alternately (and what you may very well have intended):
    ”I prefer to put the thing on a to do list and move it out of my house” = “this is what works for me because this is how my brain works and I find the item to be clutter and it is frustrating to me.”

    We keep running out of spaghetti sauce because dh gets it from the pantry, uses it when I am not looking, rinses out the jar, and tosses it in the recycling. So, when I make the grocery list, I don’t see the jar, and I don’t add spaghetti sauce. Even if he writes spaghetti sauce on the list, I don’t get it, because I remember putting a bunch in the pantry and he writes things down without checking frequently. So I see it on the list and remember that I put three jars in the pantry and have not used them. Eating food with spaghetti sauce in it is not enough to trigger the memory that it has been used. I have to actually use the sauce, wash out the jar, or see the empty jar on the counter.

  4. #14
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    We started a list by the door (which reminds me, I lost the list so need to reinstate this system) where the person who notices the need writes it down and then when we go out, it is right there. My husband is famous for cooking with the last of whatever vital ingredient I will need to prepare the food I am planning to prepare, so we fight about this a lot.

    Speaking of the empty bottle reminder method, my mom was doing this when she was still in her house and it freaked me out--I said, Mom, you are out of everything you need, like dish detergent, soap, laundry detergent--it kept happening, and she said, "I keep the empty bottle there to remind me we need it." So it seems this method works better with one person, as it is not immediately apparent with second person what is going on.

    Not sure if my dad ever understood why she had these empty bottles everywhere, to know he had to buy them at store.

    I am trying to adapt new habits that can take us into old age, as this was definitely part of her dementia, as she had never done it this way before.

    Gosh it is hard getting old. also hard living together in harmony with different systems, so we are trying to protect our marriage by coming up with agreed up systems, ways to do things. It is not worth living alone to do things my way, at this point.

  5. #15
    Senior Member iris lilies's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chicken lady View Post
    For me, out of sight, out of mind. Including the todo list.

    when I have to remember something very important, I write it on a piece of tape and tape it to my arm. The tape tugging on my skin reminds me to look at it.

    on the topic of communication, iris lilies, your response makes me think of my dh.

    this is how I perceive it:
    “I say put the thing in a To Do list and move the clutter out of your house.” = “The thing you do, and therefor the way your brain works, is wrong. You should do the thing I do because my brain works the correct way and my thing is the universal right thing to do.”

    alternately (and what you may very well have intended):
    ”I prefer to put the thing on a to do list and move it out of my house” = “this is what works for me because this is how my brain works and I find the item to be clutter and it is frustrating to me.”

    We keep running out of spaghetti sauce because dh gets it from the pantry, uses it when I am not looking, rinses out the jar, and tosses it in the recycling. So, when I make the grocery list, I don’t see the jar, and I don’t add spaghetti sauce. Even if he writes spaghetti sauce on the list, I don’t get it, because I remember putting a bunch in the pantry and he writes things down without checking frequently. So I see it on the list and remember that I put three jars in the pantry and have not used them. Eating food with spaghetti sauce in it is not enough to trigger the memory that it has been used. I have to actually use the sauce, wash out the jar, or see the empty jar on the counter.
    I have to clean around the clutter. I beg him to keep crap off of the window sills. That is his latest resting place for stuff, there temporarily but sometimes that temporary period is months.

    Fortunately we both know how to utilize a grocery list and have oir system down.

    He is repulsed by crumbs on the counter AND YET he will ignore grease inches deep, dog filth, dirty toilets, etc. In my mind crumbs on the counter are “clean”mess but grease and dog stuff is disease harboring. He apologizes for tracking dirt onto the floor after I have just cleaned it but that never bothers me, floors exist to get dirty. It is the grime and etc. on surfaces closer to my face and hands that bug me. Also, I think of garden dirt as being fairly innocuous but of course that is silly, it can be just as full of pathogens as anything else and more so.

    This isnt especially in response to you, but it expands on the idea of brains working differently in household matters.

  6. #16
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    We generally handle these in two ways:

    1) the person who is being bothered takes care of the task - but, this is how my “circuit boards” get destroyed, so I am trying to get through to him that while he thinks cleaning it up FOR me is a “favor” the actual nice thing to do would be to let me know he needs the space cleared up and give me a little time to do it (ten minutes or so if i’m not busy - but clearly if i’m getting ready to leave for work or some such, it will have to wait.)

    or

    2) the person who is bothered but hates the job asks the person who is not bothered but doesn’t mind the job to do it and then expresses gratitude, in whatever language works for you. (Example: Monday, Dh opens drawer and gets dressed: Dh: “I am out of underwear.” Me <does laundry> Tuesday, Dh opens drawer: Dh in excited voice “You did my laundry!”)

    I don’t think it is ok for you to have to clean around the clutter. At my house, the windowsills would go like this:
    ”I really want to clean the windowsills, but you have stuff on them.”

    A) do you need to do that right now?
    yes.
    ok, let me get this in the oven and I will move it.

    Or

    B) ok, i’ll move it

    stuff gets moved to some other surface, windowsills get cleaned, stuff goes back on windowsills.

  7. #17
    Senior Member iris lilies's Avatar
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    This weekend I had a communication breakthrough of sorts with dh.

    There are certain coffee mugs he will not use. There are certain coffee mugs I will not use. i will not use the ones that get hot overall when used in the microwave oven. That is how we make all of our coffee which is instant.

    Well, I learned this weekend when shopping at the thrift store exactly why he wont use certain types: he wants mugs that have big handle s that allow him to hold the mug with a full 4 fingers.
    Ok, I can deal with that and now knowk my shopping parameters at the thrift store where mugs sell for 25 cents. I need additional mugs here and at pir weekend house.

    For years I disnt understand why certain mugs were never used by him, he would not articulate the reason would just summarize “ I dont like them.”

  8. #18
    Senior Member Teacher Terry's Avatar
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    If I need to move something to clean you can bet I am not going to put it pack where it does not belong. I move it to his space where he is free to be a slob but not in the main living areas. If you don't inconvenience someone they will never change. Actually my DH has changed a lot in the past 20 years in this regard. He is much better at containing his messes in his office, garage or shed.

  9. #19
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    Teacher Terry, I would move the things for the cleaning person, then I would move them back. I was presuming he was using the windowsills as his “circuit board”, “memo”, “to do list”, whichever. If they simply needed to be put away and had a place, anybody could move them.

    When people inconvenience me on purpose, I change. I change from pleasant to pissed off. This usually results in even more behavior that displeases the inconveniencer. This is why the picking up my piles is such a big deal. I keep trying to give him the benefit of the doubt and assume that he isn’t doing it to piss me off, since I am making the piles because I need to do something, not to piss him off.

    If someone is willing to state the problem and why it is a problem, I am usually willing to work with them. It also helps if they ask why I am doing something instead of just telling me it is wrong. (Like iris lilies’ mugs) That doesn’t mean they always get their way. Our “living areas” are usually the most disordered, because I am living in them. The guest room looks really nice unless I have stashed laundry on the bed. But we rarely go in there. We like to do things where there is music and food and fire and room to spread out.

  10. #20
    Senior Member Teacher Terry's Avatar
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    My ex thought I was a slob and he liked everything perfect which didn't happen with 3 small kids. Mu DH thinks I am too neat and fussy. It is all in the eyes of the beholder I guess. I want my living room, dining room and kitchen to be neat and relaxing. I can invite people over without having to clean up. We each have our own office for projects and he has garage and enormous shed that came with the house for his projects. If I let him he would have a mess in every room of the house. My side of the bedroom is neat and his is messy. We lived together for 5 years before marrying so each of us knew what we were getting into and what compromises had to be made. My ex would take your coffee cup and put it in the dishwasher when I went to the bathroom. I would have to take it with me or announce that I wasn't done. My husband is so disorganized so is always looking for tools, etc when he needs them. If he dies first and I clean out those areas I bet he has many duplicate tools.

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