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Thread: Would you lie to preserve your money?

  1. #11
    Senior Member catherine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveinMN View Post
    Not to veer too far off-topic, but the upper classes game the system as well.
    Yeah, but we don't slam them for it. Well, Bernie Sanders does, but overall, cheating the government when you are rich is somehow less of a moral failure than when you are poor.
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  2. #12
    Senior Member SteveinMN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by catherine View Post
    overall, cheating the government when you are rich is somehow less of a moral failure than when you are poor.
    True. When the 1% do it, it's "being smart".
    If Americans expended even a fraction of the energy on civic engagement that we spend on consumer ideology, our democracy would be much healthier. Can you imagine people camping out to vote? -- Charles Roberts, Amherst, Mass., Nov. 25, 2006

  3. #13
    Senior Member Sad Eyed Lady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LDAHL View Post
    Isn't there a look-back period aimed at catching that kind of thing?
    I don't know if this changes state to state or not, but in my state the look-back period is 5 years. This is in regard to people placing their home in a child's name so that it is protected. It must be done at least 5 years prior to the person receiving nursing home care. I am not sure about other assets, if the same time frame is applicable or at all.
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  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sad Eyed Lady View Post
    I don't know if this changes state to state or not, but in my state the look-back period is 5 years. This is in regard to people placing their home in a child's name so that it is protected. It must be done at least 5 years prior to the person receiving nursing home care. I am not sure about other assets, if the same time frame is applicable or at all.
    I believe that it does vary by state. I believe mine protects a residence, a car and a certain level of assets from the draw-down requirement. I also think there is a look-back period that would look at significant asset transfers between spouses just prior to a divorce. We are a community property state anyway, which in itself could limit the strategy the OP describes. I would expect that in most states you would need some significant assets and fairly expensive advice well in advance of the event to make a Medicaid divorce a worthwhile strategy. Depending on a number of factors, such as being married less than ten years, you might be risking other benefits by divorcing.

    At the risk of contributing to the class war rhetoric, I would say that such a strategy would work best for wealthier people.

  5. #15
    Senior Member iris lilies's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveinMN View Post
    True. When the 1% do it, it's "being smart".
    Yes, Medicaid fraud, food stamp fraud, welfare
    fraud, those are all wrong and are “moral failures” if you like. But mainly, they are against the law and for good reason.

  6. #16
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    Not to veer too far off-topic, but the upper classes game the system as well.
    uh though they aren't the super rich, these people sound like they might be classified as upper class as well.
    If you want something to get done, ask a busy person. If you want them to have a nervous breakdown that is.

  7. #17
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    I would also think it would be an interesting discussion to determine who gets the assets and insurance and who gets consigned to the Medicaid facility if they in fact do get transferred.

  8. #18
    Senior Member iris lilies's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yppej View Post
    Some programs like Food Stamps look at household income regardless of marital status. I thought Medicaid did also in my state, but if not maybe it should.
    .
    New Style Medicaid, the program that came with OmabamaCare in the states that took it up, does not pay any attention to assets. There are multimillionaires on Medicaid. Some even on this website.

    Being on Medicaid in this situation is just one step beyond what I am doing, paying $0 in premiums for Health insurance. Of course, if I actually USE any health care services I have to pay for them, and that is not a complaint. We essentially have a high deductible insurance policy (that really isnt very high.) The only catch, theoretically, is that I have to have lowish income to get it.
    Last edited by iris lilies; 4-2-18 at 12:39pm.

  9. #19
    Senior Member flowerseverywhere's Avatar
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    Thanks everyone so much. So many of the points I was thinking about have been raised. DH and I had a long discussion about what our strategy should be. At this point we are looking into what our options are.

    I think the thing that stunned me about this person is they are very outspoken about government benefits going to people who in their eyes don’t “need it.”
    for instance multi millionaires getting social security which I have no problem with because they are the ones who have supported many social programs through the years and were forced to pay into it.

    Also, we have a friend who died in his 30’s. He had good life insurance through work, his volunteer firefighting and a term policy. His wife put the social security survivor benefits they got into college accounts. She stayed in their modest paid off house and worked part time so she could spend more time with the kids. My friend thought she should not have gotten social security because she didn’t need it. Fast forward twenty years in the future and the kids are engineers and physicians. Could they have achieved that had she not wisely used the help given to them which was all legal? Of course no way of knowing that but it certainly must have helped those kids.

    And like the estate tax. That was hugely criticized when it was raised as it only affects a small portion of society, but on the other hand why should they not benefit if they have paid all their legal taxes through the years and worked hard?

    so many dilemmas to think about. I do find it funny though when people rail against social programs yet will jump at the chance to benefit themselves. That is human nature I guess.

  10. #20
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    so many dilemmas to think about. I do find it funny though when people rail against social programs yet will jump at the chance to benefit themselves. That is human nature I guess.
    not taking a social program one is eligible for free and clear is for most people pure stupidity that becomes one of those bad life choices that inevitably leads to poverty. But fraud is another matter, and yes fraud is illegal (and if a social program has restraints and isn't open to all, ie it's not a guaranteed income or Social Security and Medicare after a certain age, then it does punish anyone who is actually playing by the rules, and many will play by the rules out of sheer honesty, regardless of their politics). This straddles the line as I guess many things do.
    If you want something to get done, ask a busy person. If you want them to have a nervous breakdown that is.

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