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Thread: Here's some hope..........really truly some hope and I never thought I'd see this!

  1. #1
    Senior Member gimmethesimplelife's Avatar
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    Here's some hope..........really truly some hope and I never thought I'd see this!

    Color me amazed and humbled in a good way......California is now considering a bill that raises the standard for when police can use deadly force. Gone would be the days in California of civilians being used as target practice under a regime of turn off body cams, shoot and kill first, potentially destroy evidence,and ask questions later with "I was afraid" as a vehicle towards legitimizing murder.

    When you least expect it.......hope, springing from seemingly out of nowhere! I have so much respect for the State of California at this point, I really do. Rob

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    Simpleton Alan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gimmethesimplelife View Post
    Color me amazed and humbled in a good way......California is now considering a bill that raises the standard for when police can use deadly force.
    Can you give us more details? The universal standard for the use of deadly force requires a fear of imminent death or serious injury to yourself or others. In California, will the police be required to take the first bullet or knife thrust or maybe wait until the car actually hits them before they're allowed to defend themselves? I'm really curious.
    "Things should be made as simple as possible, but not one bit simpler." ~ Albert Einstein

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    Senior Member gimmethesimplelife's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan View Post
    Can you give us more details? The universal standard for the use of deadly force requires a fear of imminent death or serious injury to yourself or others. In California, will the police be required to take the first bullet or knife thrust or maybe wait until the car actually hits them before they're allowed to defend themselves? I'm really curious.
    I will post a link to the article in a sec, no problem. If nothing else, for those who don't have issues with how things stand now, it's an excursion to my side of society. Buckle up, the reading may be bumpy LOL. Rob

    http://www.newsy.com/stories/calif-s...-deadly-force/

    Here's the article.....a number of different sources are posting this today. Apparently this bill would change the standard whereby deadly force can be used from "reasonable" to "necessary" - should this pass, I forsee a lot much needed litigation against the police eventually forcing true reform and an overhaul of the brutal and discriminatory US police. I still have faith that one day in my lifetime I will see the sociopaths behind a badge kicked to the curb with high dollar settlements for any and all abuses they are guilty of with no statue of limitations. I do believe citizens of my country will not be smoothed over by anything less. Rob

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    Simpleton Alan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gimmethesimplelife View Post
    I will post a link to the article in a sec, no problem. If nothing else, for those who don't have issues with how things stand now, it's an excursion to my side of society. Buckle up, the reading may be bumpy LOL. Rob

    www.newsy.com/stories/calif-s-new-bill-would-limit-police-use-of-deadly-force/

    Here's the article.....a number of different sources are posting this today. Apparently this bill would change the standard whereby deadly force can be used from "reasonable" to "necessary" - should this pass, I forsee a lot much needed litigation against the police eventually forcing true reform and an overhaul of the brutal and discriminatory US police. I still have faith that one day in my lifetime I will see the sociopaths behind a badge kicked to the curb with high dollar settlements for any and all abuses they are guilty of with no statue of limitations. I do believe citizens of my country will not be smoothed over by anything less. Rob
    If an excursion to your side of society involves a police officer having a lesser right to defend themselves than the general public enjoys, your society is not worth protecting.
    "Things should be made as simple as possible, but not one bit simpler." ~ Albert Einstein

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    Senior Member gimmethesimplelife's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan View Post
    If an excursion to your side of society involves a police officer having a lesser right to defend themselves than the general public enjoys, your society is not worth protecting.
    Given the number of offenses committed by the police, sometimes on video, given the number of times police have been proven to have been lying during sworn testimony, and given the number of unjustifiable murders committed by the police just the past few years.....I could not disagree with you more. It's high time the police were held accountable every step of the way just like any other working adult in America is these days. It doesn't say anything flattering about America that it's taken so much injustice at the hands of American police to get to this point, but at least in California, the tide seems to be turning and people seem to be demanding that the police operate within the confines of the law. No excuses and no exceptions, with swift consequences for any LEO lawbreakers. It's about time!!!!! Rob

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan View Post
    If an excursion to your side of society involves a police officer having a lesser right to defend themselves than the general public enjoys, your society is not worth protecting.
    Warren verses District of Columbia.
    This could drive the police to becoming nothing more then an income generating, ticketing organization, rather then a protect and serve operation.
    "So you were robbed, why are you calling us, we don't deal with that sort of thing?!"

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    Senior Member flowerseverywhere's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gimmethesimplelife View Post
    Color me amazed and humbled in a good way......California is now considering a bill that raises the standard for when police can use deadly force. Gone would be the days in California of civilians being used as target practice under a regime of turn off body cams, shoot and kill first, potentially destroy evidence,and ask questions later with "I was afraid" as a vehicle towards legitimizing murder.

    When you least expect it.......hope, springing from seemingly out of nowhere! I have so much respect for the State of California at this point, I really do. Rob
    Nationwide 35 police officers have been killed in the line of duty in 2018, 19 of them by gunfire
    in 2017 46 of the 134 killed were by gunfire


    https://www.odmp.org/search/year?year=2017

    California is in the bottom quarter for state safety in regards to the violent crime rate. Tying one arm behind a police officers back surely won’t be helpful in this regard.

    https://www.usnews.com/news/best-sta.../public-safety


    i cannot imagine a more stressful job with all the guns floating around. I honestly think you should get a job as a police officer and see what they face day in and day out.

  8. #8
    Senior Member gimmethesimplelife's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by flowerseverywhere View Post
    Nationwide 35 police officers have been killed in the line of duty in 2018, 19 of them by gunfire
    in 2017 46 of the 134 killed were by gunfire


    https://www.odmp.org/search/year?year=2017

    California is in the bottom quarter for state safety in regards to the violent crime rate. Tying one arm behind a police officers back surely won’t be helpful in this regard.

    https://www.usnews.com/news/best-sta.../public-safety


    i cannot imagine a more stressful job with all the guns floating around. I honestly think you should get a job as a police officer and see what they face day in and day out.
    Hi Flowerseverywhere,

    I can accept that (and even agree with) that the job of a police officer is stressful and does carry with it some degree of risk. I am guessing that so far we are on the same page?

    Where I part ways with this shared page is that when the police kill someone who is unarmed - this to me is an instant termination offense - as in firing the United States as your citizenship/passport - and in my perfect world, we all would be offered citizenship buyouts. Yes, I'm very much serious. If a said country is going to portray itself as a beacon of freedom and liberty and opportunity, gunning down unarmed young minority men - to put it nicely, really a). does not with in with the aforementioned narrative, and b). really ruins anything good that you could say about the citizenship.

    Seriously. I'm beyond disillusioned that so many Americans just don't get it. We are talking about human life here, and the power of a pension accruing government employee to end your life (murder you) for very flimsy or no real reason(s). Once again, we are talking of a pension accruing individual being allowed the power to play God over who lives and who doesn't live that said pension accruing individual comes in contact with over the course of their day. In cases where it is clear cut that murder was actually committed, it's very hard to get charges to stick - that tells you all you need to know about exactly how much human life is valued in the United States.

    Given the reality that human life means so little in America, and given America's fondness for going on and on about denying this fact via words like freedom, liberty, opportunity, etc - you can't truly expect that there won't be some people who see straight through this and relentlessly hold America accountable in whatever legal ways they can. As a society you can't expect that this large elephant in the room - that the reality of America is nothing like it is said to be - can be ignored by every last citizen. Some like myself are just not capable of extending such.

    And I'm starting to meander so I'll cut it short with: If society wants people with courage to call it for what it truly is to play nice - society needs to value human life a tad bit more. The lack of socialized medicine coupled with the complete and total disrespect of human life shown by society's tendency to side with the police when the police kill for flimsy or no reason at all - you can't expect all people to be down with such a society given the deep conflict in how society portrays itself vs. the actual reality of society.

    Given the current realities of US citizenship, you are asking for too much. I don't know how to make this more clear and with fewer words. Want real change and anything resembling loyalty? Access to health care for all citizens and the power of the police to kill for no reason needs to be curbed. Otherwise no loyalty - to extend loyalty to such a society would be working against yourself and not for yourself.

    One last thing -I really resent how America tends to look down at third world countries as if America were so smugly superior. What happened to Stephon Clark? (along with many other unarmed young minority men) -It's really no different from over the top police in a third world country that America would look down on - say Venezuela for example, where such police murders are an everyday occurrence. Rob

  9. #9
    Senior Member flowerseverywhere's Avatar
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    total disregard for human life?

    there are bad police out there, I’ll give you that. But if we did not have our police, for the few that are flawed, we might as well flee to one of the countries the south of the borders refugees are coming from. Mob or gang rule is frightening and dangerous.


    If they did not have a pension would you think differently? Because for the life of me I cannot imagine who would take such a thankless and dangerous job without good benefits. Plus all the people standing around with cellphones just waiting for to sue them.

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    I'm a pension accruing individual, and it's pretty nice. However if I was required to make a split-second decision in a dangerous situation, I doubt my vested status would be uppermost in my mind.

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