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Thread: Let Them Eat Cake

  1. #11
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    I agree with Jane and CL that let the customers decide what is acceptable or not.

  2. #12
    Senior Member jp1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iris lilies View Post
    Hiding behind religion. Nope.

    sincerely held beliefs, yep.

    i cant see what is so hard to see about that.
    Woolworths, and plenty of other places, had sincerely held beliefs that the races shouldn't mix while eating.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by jp1 View Post
    Woolworths, and plenty of other places, had sincerely held beliefs that the races shouldn't mix while eating.
    I think there’s a difference between making people offer public accommodations equally to all comers and forcing people to perform specific services or project messages they object to.

  4. #14
    Senior Member JaneV2.0's Avatar
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    Conscience can be a wonderful thing if it's used. If more people in power used their conscience, thousands of innocent refugee children wouldn't be languishing in prisons because their parents were desperate for a safe haven. A smug, self-righteous baker looks like small potatoes by comparison.

  5. #15
    Senior Member jp1's Avatar
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    So if they object to interracial marriage should the baker be able to refuse to make a cake? Or if a muslim straight couple wanted a wedding cake should they be able to refuse?

    And what if the gay couple didnt want the cake to he notably ‘gay’ in anyway. Just a generic wedding cake?

  6. #16
    Simpleton Alan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jp1 View Post
    So if they object to interracial marriage should the baker be able to refuse to make a cake? Or if a muslim straight couple wanted a wedding cake should they be able to refuse?
    Or what if a Muslim baker refused to decorate a cake with an image of Mohammed due to his/her religions ban on his image? Or, what if a Christian baker refused to cater a wedding party for a polygamist family celebrating their latest 15 year old sister wife's induction to the harem?
    And what if the gay couple didnt want the cake to he notably ‘gay’ in anyway. Just a generic wedding cake?
    I think that was answered in the suit. It wasn't the cake that was refused, it was the decoration.
    "Things should be made as simple as possible, but not one bit simpler." ~ Albert Einstein

  7. #17
    Senior Member jp1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan View Post
    I think that was answered in the suit. It wasn't the cake that was refused, it was the decoration.
    Actually no. The baker shut the discussion down before they got to cake details. He was not willing to make any wedding cake for them.

  8. #18
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    A friend just sent me cartoon that applies--it has a checkout clerk refusing to sell you condoms, referring you to another clerk, but they're Muslim and can't check out your ham, but you could try another clerk who can't sell you Coke because they're Mormon...Another clerk is a Jehovah's witness and won't sell you a birthday card...It suggests you try the LGBT guy on register 4 who isn't hiding behind his religion. Hyperbole, but it makes the point.
    I don't know, I kinda look forward to a world where clerks working at a grocery store have that much say in their job duties (even if the clerks are as depicted). I don't think there are any laws protecting the clerks employment (from firing) in such a case though. Maybe it needs to go before the Supreme Court! Freedom of conscience is at stake! At stake I tell you! Until the Mormon who refuses to check out the Coke buyer's job is protected!

    As it is currently freedom of conscience is just another word for abuse of power (although if it was narrowly limited to non-monopoly non-incorporated tiny businesses, that power is pretty limited and so fairly benign). Corporations can't have consciences anyway and Woolworths was not a small business.
    Last edited by ApatheticNoMore; 6-6-18 at 1:34pm.
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  9. #19
    Senior Member catherine's Avatar
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    I remember when American values said that blacks weren't as good as whites so they shouldn't sit in certain areas in diners and on public transportation. I remember when American values said that a woman working was taking away a good job from a man. I remember when American values said that people should be free to beat their wives, Lynch their slaves, deny the handicapped access to buildings, and give students in the most affluent neighborhoods the best resources in a public education system (well, that's still going on).

    "Values" and "conscience" are loaded words that have been used to justify laws and practices the promote hatred, bigotry, and as ANM rightly said, abuse of power.
    "Do any human beings ever realize life while they live it--every, every minute?" Emily Webb, Our Town
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  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by JaneV2.0 View Post
    A smug, self-righteous baker looks like small potatoes by comparison.
    If the preponderance of smug self-righteousness, not to say naked bigotry, hadn’t been on the side of the commission, the Supremes wouldn’t have been able to punt on the larger constitutional issues.

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