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Thread: Child detention/immigration/...

  1. #1
    Senior Member bae's Avatar
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    Child detention/immigration/...

    When trying to puzzle this out, I see the media is overwhelmed with posturing and wide-eyed horror and indignation on all "sides" of this issue. From "the usual sources", it's hard to tell if we are baking young children in ovens, or if MS-13 is infiltrating our nation with elementary-school killers.

    Have you all had any luck in finding a detailed accounting of the situation, and the context, from any reputable sources? Data, history, policy comparisons, that sort of thing?

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    Senior Member catherine's Avatar
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    I tried to spend a little time looking after a conservative friend on fb claimed that the family separation policy was put in place under Clinton's administration in 1997/1998. I tried reading the law enacted back then but my eyes quickly glazed over.

    I also tried to look up reputable facts about crimes committed by undocumented aliens and of course, I found statistics supporting both "Actually, the crimes committed by illegals is proportionately lower than the population at large because they don't want to risk getting departed" and "Thousands of crimes committed by illegals! Over 4900 people dead a year from illegals driving drunk alone!"
    "Do any human beings ever realize life while they live it--every, every minute?" Emily Webb, Our Town
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    Senior Member herbgeek's Avatar
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    You may or may not trust the Washington Post...but here was a good article outlining the situation I read earlier this week: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.fe9517987527

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    Senior Member iris lilies's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by catherine View Post
    I tried to spend a little time looking after a conservative friend on fb claimed that the family separation policy was put in place under Clinton's administration in 1997/1998. I tried reading the law enacted back then but my eyes quickly glazed over.

    I also tried to look up reputable facts about crimes committed by undocumented aliens and of course, I found statistics supporting both "Actually, the crimes committed by illegals is proportionately lower than the population at large because they don't want to risk getting departed" and "Thousands of crimes committed by illegals! Over 4900 people dead a year from illegals driving drunk alone!"
    This doesnt go to bae’s point, but “crimes commited by illegals” is kind of funny to me because if they are here illegally, they are committing a crime, so that is 100% engaged in criminal activity.

    Now back to the issue at hand...

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    Senior Member JaneV2.0's Avatar
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    It's not illegal to enter the country or to petition for asylum. If your papers aren't in order, I understand it's on the level of misdemeanor.

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    Senior Member catherine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JaneV2.0 View Post
    It's not illegal to enter the country or to petition for asylum. If your papers aren't in order, I understand it's on the level of misdemeanor.
    Exactly. And the type of crimes Trump is talking about when he talks about why we should close the borders are violent crimes, so I was interested in seeing just how threatened we truly are by people crossing the border.

    Which brings me to a point that drives me crazy. Another fb meme I see repeatedly posted and shared by my conservative friends is "Aw, separating children from families. We separate children from families when they go to prison and no one says anything. We separate families when we send soldiers off to war and no one says anything." These arguments are SO ridiculous and maddening to me. So far I've been able to keep myself from replying, because I try to stay apolitical on FB, but it's getting harder and harder these days.
    "Do any human beings ever realize life while they live it--every, every minute?" Emily Webb, Our Town
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    I am coming from my liberal side but will come from my best impartial state:

    I saw some reports from politicians who have visited, and that seemed reputable. I am now looking for the link but sorry that I can't find it. I would say that the photos need some explanation if they are not what we believe. That many children in detention areas is very questionable and I have not heard any explanations for why they are there with space blankets, is it just for 1 hour or days or what? If someone has seen a response to this that would be great. Working with children every day I find this really hard to see any images, or imagine why this is solving a problem.

    I would like to know more because my more conservative relatives are saying at one moment that it is okay that children are separated from their criminal parents every day, and then saying that it is all faked with celebrities. So that doesn't tell me if they think it is happening or not,

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    Senior Member razz's Avatar
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    CBC has been covering the issue from different perspectives

    Read this if you think the media covered Trump's migrant crisis unfairly: Robyn Urback
    http://www.cbc.ca/news/opinion/trump...lies-1.4714860

    Without a doubt, it is a complex situation that is not going to go away. Desperate people do desperate things against all odds because there are no alternatives. It is a world-wide problem but I hear of few efforts trying to resolve the desperation driving the situation. Expecting desperate people to be experts on the law of seeking asylum is foolishness. Expecting desperate people with minimal funds to pay for costly expertise is foolishness. Start finding solutions rather than putting up expensive walls that don't work. Engage the world in this rather than isolate oneself and cover one's ears to avoid the sound of children crying. There is a serious lack of leadership.

    What's real, and what's not, about the U.S. border crisis
    https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/us-imm...heck-1.4711267
    Tens of thousands of parents and children, mostly from Honduras, El Salvador and Guatemala, have been caught crossing the U.S.-Mexico border illegally in recent years with stories of fleeing drug cartels, extreme poverty and gang violence. The U.S. can't send them back over the border unless they are Mexican citizens, and instead must refer their case to an immigration judge.

    "In 2008, President George W. Bush focused on the problem of minors crossing the border without their parents and signed a law unanimously passed by Congress that called for such "unaccompanied minors" to be released into the "least restrictive setting."...
    By 2014, President Barack Obama was facing an influx of both children travelling alone and families as a result of violence in Central America. At one point, his administration tried housing the families in special detention centres. But after a federal judge in California ruled the arrangement violated a long-standing agreement barring kids from jail-like settings, even with their parents, the government began releasing families into the U.S. pending notification of their next court date.

    Earlier on Wednesday, the head of U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement invoked the Sept. 11 attacks to defend the policy.

    Acting ICE director Thomas Homan told the Fox News show Fox & Friends: "I see a lot of tweets from New York congressmen. How soon they forget what happened in New York at the hands of people in the country illegally."

    The Sept. 11 hijackers had entered the country legally (two of them had overstayed their visas).

    https://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Justic...-border-policy

    "There are now more than 10,000 unaccompanied minors in government custody at a cost to taxpayers of $1 billion per year, according to Mr. Wagner from HHS – far more than the system was designed to hold. The Trump administration blames the border crisis on “loopholes” that Democrats refuse to close, but critics say those provisions were made to protect minors and should be kept in place. Mr. Jawetz says the Trump administration is ignoring a genuine refugee crisis and he and others are concerned that the government will make it more difficult for asylum seekers and unaccompanied minors to find protection in the US.

    “None of this is solutions-based,” says Jawetz. “It’s all counterproductive and being driven not by someone who has serious policy solutions in mind but is trying to drive an ideological agenda about what America should look like now and in the future.”
    A major problem is the backlog in the immigration system, says Ms. Brown of the Bipartisan Policy Center.

    “When the process is working efficiently, then we are able to treat people with respect and dignity … but we’re still maintaining the integrity of our immigration system,” says Brown, who previously worked with US Customs and Border Protection. “What happened is we didn’t plan for the numbers that we saw.”
    Ms. De Peña, who recently visited and interviewed asylum seekers in a detention facility in Texas, says that one solution is educating potential migrants about the asylum process. Most of those she interviewed said the reason they crossed over illegally is because they were intercepted by someone in Mexico who told them they needed to pay for safe passage or else they were going to be shot by a border agent. “They had no idea or understanding what a port of entry is,” she says.
    Additionally, she says, restoring prosecutorial discretion would help those with the most information make expedient decisions rather than following an order from Washington to refer every individual for criminal prosecution.
    Gandhi: Happiness is when what you think, what you say and what you do are in harmony .

  9. #9
    Senior Member bae's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by catherine View Post
    Exactly. And the type of crimes Trump is talking about when he talks about why we should close the borders are violent crimes, so I was interested in seeing just how threatened we truly are by people crossing the border.
    Interesting take on this today:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/21/o...mmigrants.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by bae View Post
    Thanks for posting this. It's sobering to wonder how people still act like this in 2018.
    I still think this anti-immigrant hysteria has an economic component, just as so much of our country's past racism has. Whenever the economy is doing well, no one cares about this. But when the economy tanked in 2008/2009, I watched Sheriff Arpaio and other politicians here scapegoat immigrants to the loud applause.

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