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Thread: It is virtuous if you're actually just inclined to that virtue?

  1. #21
    Senior Member iris lilies's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by razz View Post
    Who cares if one exhibits virtue? Who is judging? Who appointed the judge? Why? To what end for the individual?
    Agreed. i dont accept the basic idea that a “virtue” is worth dentifying and cultivating. At least,
    I dont necessarily accept it, and certainly not in the context of simplicity.
    Last edited by iris lilies; 6-29-18 at 6:01pm.

  2. #22
    Senior Member Ultralight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iris lilies View Post
    Agreed. i dont accept the basic idea that a “virture” is worth dentifying and cultivating. At least,
    I dont necessarily accept it, and certainly not in the context of simplicity.
    What, if anything, is a virtue, in your opinion?
    I came from a real tough neighborhood. I put my hand in some cement and felt another hand." -- Rodney Dangerfield

  3. #23
    Senior Member Gardenarian's Avatar
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    I've been thinking about this so much that I'm losing the sense of what the word virtue means!

    Is virtue the same thing as a life well lived?

    Virtuous: honest, hard working, caring (for other people, animals, plants, the planet, and for your own self), kind, generous, brave. Not necessarily selfless but not selfish. Not giving in to one's lower self.

    Is educating oneself a virtue? Is living like a hermit? Not by definition.

    My attempt at living a simpler life is partly motivated by a desire to be more virtuous. I want to have a smaller ecological footprint.

    I am primarily motivated by the desire to live a life that has more meaning. So, books rather than TV, to grow my mind. Making art and learning crafts, to enrich my spirit. Owning less so there is less maintenance and housework. Taking pleasure in the ordinary, which costs nothing and increases happiness. And so on.

    That being said, "simple living" is a pretty amorphous philosophy.

  4. #24
    Senior Member iris lilies's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gardenarian View Post

    ...My attempt at living a simpler life is partly motivated by a desire to be more virtuous. I want to have a smaller ecological footprint. y.
    So, you and the OP agree that

    1) there is this thing known as virtue
    2) “small ecological footprint” is equal to a virtuous life

    so you two are on the same wavelength

    Me, probably not in agreement. While I guess I agree with #1 but am struggling with the idea, I dont agree with #2.

    UL asked upthread what, if anything, I consider a virtue. As I think about it,
    I just do not like the word “virtue,” it sounds like something from a Victorian religious tract.

    perhaps I would say “he was a good man” about someone who lived a long life of good intention and action. I would not say “he was a virtuous man.”
    Last edited by iris lilies; 7-1-18 at 10:06pm.

  5. #25
    Senior Member catherine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iris lilies View Post
    So, you and the OP agree that

    1) there is this thing known as virtue
    Yeah, I think your problem is with the word, but I'm sure you agree that there are virtues. The opposite of vice is virtue. Do you believe in vice?

    There are lots of lists of virtues. Here's a pretty all-encompassing one (it lists vices as well): http://beliefcloset.com/wp-content/u...aster-List.pdf

    But there are subsets of virtue:

    Here is list of Protestant virtues: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_are_t...estant_virtues

    Here is a list of Catholic virtues: It's a very succinct list actually: prudence, justice, fortitude and temperance.

    Here are Benjamin Franklin's list of virtues: https://www.artofmanliness.com/artic...-life-wrap-up/

    And here is a list of secular virtues: http://alaindebotton.com/on-being-good/

    There's a list of virtues for everyone! I think simple living falls under the virtue of temperance.
    "Do any human beings ever realize life while they live it--every, every minute?" Emily Webb, Our Town
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  6. #26
    Senior Member Ultralight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iris lilies View Post

    perhaps I would say “he was a good man” about someone who lived a long life of good intention and action. I would not say “he was a virtuous man.”
    What did he do or not do that made him a "good man?"
    I came from a real tough neighborhood. I put my hand in some cement and felt another hand." -- Rodney Dangerfield

  7. #27
    Senior Member iris lilies's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultralight View Post
    What did he do or not do that made him a "good man?"
    He was kind to people snd his dog. He took care of his family.

    if you want to break any of his small actions into virtues, you can do that.

  8. #28
    Senior Member Ultralight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iris lilies View Post
    He was kind to people snd his dog.
    Many folks consider kindness to animals a virtue.

    But to get back to my question. Let's say he naturally loved dogs, loved'em! So of course he was kind to his dog.

    Now, suppose he naturally disliked dogs -- hated them fleabags! -- but his wife loved dogs, so she got two. And he, despite hating dogs, treated those dogs with incredible kindness. And then let's say his wife died and left him a widower. But the two dogs were still around and he kept them and treated them as well as his wife would have wanted.

    My question is, which is truly virtuous? Or which is more virtuous? The kindness to dogs that is naturally a man's inclination or the kindness to dogs that takes discipline and going against one's natural inclinations?
    I came from a real tough neighborhood. I put my hand in some cement and felt another hand." -- Rodney Dangerfield

  9. #29
    Senior Member Williamsmith's Avatar
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    I don’t have an opinion either way. But I will admit that I mostly don’t like anything that starts with a “v”. I would not want, “He was a virtuous man.” on my tombstone.

  10. #30
    Senior Member JaneV2.0's Avatar
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    I like the secular list; it seems to me to be a set of practical guidelines for living--without a lot of judgment.

    The idea that constant self-denial is someyhing to be desired seems very puritanical to me; I can almost see Cotton Mather looming in the background. That's what the word "virtue" says to me.
    "

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