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Thread: Bad news from the Homeland.......

  1. #61
    Williamsmith
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    I was just disappointed UL couldn’t slip in something about apple pie.....he stuck the Mom and baseball landing perfectly.

  2. #62
    Senior Member iris lilies's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Williamsmith View Post
    I was just disappointed UL couldn’t slip in something about apple pie.....he stuck the Mom and baseball landing perfectly.
    Haha!

    UL is a True American even though he doesnt like to think he is.

  3. #63
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    One thing that struck me about some of the childhood stories told here is the extent to which I belong to an aristocracy of good fortune. My parents weren’t rich, but my early years wouldn’t have given Dickens much to work with. I have had, I think, to work pretty hard but have been decently rewarded for it. I have an adequate retirement stash in place.

    I don’t pretend to be completely self made, but have done enough to take a little satisfaction in the product. I can’t comprehend why anyone lucky enough to be born in the US would have much legitimate reason to be bitter about it. If I have any concerns about our future, it’s that we may fall into the comfortable trap of thinking sacrifing a bit more freedom will get us certain gains in the long run. I think Europe will pay for that in the long run.

    I also think that if we allow the personal to become the political we will suffer for it both as individuals and a society. We have only to review this thread to see how that can happen. It’s possible to be an honorable liberal or a despicable conservative, but that is more a question of character than ideology.

    I’m a fortunate son of a fortunate land, and benefit from the work and sacrifice of better people than myself. If that’s privilege, make the most of it. Just don’t expect any apologies.

  4. #64
    Senior Member iris lilies's Avatar
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    Alan, you are lucky in the brains department,
    I have to say. Somehow, genetic material passed feom your parent(s) to you, allowing you to recognize options and to see a way out, to visualize a better life.

    I always wonder about that, and how it happens with some kids in a family and not others.

    The saying around here in ghetto land some years ago was “they cant do better if they cant see better” so there is always an effort to show kids a lifestyle devoid of drugs, guns, and unwed moms. Exposing them to a world of middle class stability is a good thing, certainly, but few seem to engage with it.

  5. #65
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    The problem with Rob's criticism is it is extremely biased, ok so he criticizes the U.S. healthcare system. Fine, but the argument is never that Mexico has a better healthcare system (it might, it's not usually the poster child, as that country on the northern border is more likely to be, but Mexico's healthcare seems to have improved enough with it's universal healthcare that now it might) but how wonderful Mexico as a whole is, when we know people get killed regularly (not just an ocassional suspicious death spawning a million conspiracy theories, but all the time and known knowns) running for office there. So better overall, I don't know about that ...

    Maybe I believe almost everyone ALREADY BATS as best as they can, maybe everyone already bats as best as they can. HOWEVER, several things factor in:

    1) they make choices, some of which are based on value systems but set them back economically, a stay at home mother - well that's an economic risk that can go wrong, or caretaking, or merely refusing 60 hour weeks at some point in order to have a life, or taking the job closer even if the one with the commute from hell is more lucrative etc.. People bat as best they can, and often try DAMN HARD, and have virtues to spare and then some, but they try to optimize THEIR LIVES as they see it, not just their economics,that is ONE part of life. It doesn't always work. And then they die homeless in a gutter or something I guess. Or so we would have it. But it's messed up that anyone is homeless.
    2) in addition to choices, people are almost always dealing with limitations as well and we don't know what they are. It's like if every 10th batter was blind or something. They might be ignorant and not know much about getting on the world and not even know they don't know, they might be neuro-atypical and it could be harder to fit in many places, they might have severe psychological problems, they might have been severely traumatized. We don't know. And people can't always triumph over every possible obstacle, that's not reality. They might of course have more obvious problems (diseases etc.). So they might be batting with absolutely everything they have, but the blind batter more often misses the ball!
    3) for almost EVERYONE it is increasingly hard to even figure out what to do economically as things get increasingly complex, increasingly niche, increasingly expensive in many cases and increasingly more difficult. everyone bats as best they can but in a broadly prosperous society less fall through the cracks than are now, it's like the bats have all gotten much narrower!
    4) I don't go into systematic factors like prejudice, yes they exist, but enough is already said on that everywhere.
    Trees don't grow on money

  6. #66
    Senior Member iris lilies's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yppej View Post
    The US has demanded this choice, both of my mother and of me. The law has since changed.
    Ok, now for specifics please since I am still trying to figure out if Austria is the only Big Bad
    Immoral country in this discussion or if the US of A also earns that label.

    What year are you talking about when you say “the law has since changed.” What year was your experience?

  7. #67
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    We think other people are ourselves (but maybe running some faulty applications that need fixing). But maybe other people run whole different operating systems, on whole different hardware, maybe they are different machines entirely (like the difference between human brains and computer hardware). Well it's a metaphor, I can only take it so far ...

    I do too, even when I say everyone bats as best they can, though I suspect many do, that it's more true than assuming some batters are just not trying.
    Trees don't grow on money

  8. #68
    Senior Member iris lilies's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ApatheticNoMore View Post
    We think other people are ourselves (but maybe running some faulty applications that need fixing). But maybe other people run whole different operating systems, on whole different hardware, maybe they are different machines entirely (like the difference between human brains and computer hardware). Well it's a metaphor, I can only take it so far ...

    I do too, even when I say everyone bats as best they can, though I suspect many do, in their way.
    It is a good metaphor, ANM. There is that.

  9. #69
    Senior Member gimmethesimplelife's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iris lilies View Post
    Nice try avoiding the real point.

    What “riles” me is your constant bashing of social welfare programs in the U.S. while sucking them down.
    The program we have for socialied medicine saved your life. You admit it in the above post.

    To spell it out, you are a hypocrite. You cant have it both ways as in
    1) there is not socialized medicine to take care of me
    2) I used a quarter of a million dollars worth of health care services, paid by taxpayers

    You are ungrateful.
    IL.....I'm completely not understanding you here. Not one bit.

    Please let me calmly state that I am grateful for the medical help/intervention that I had during my liver infection a year and a half ago. I have never once complained about the care I received. My issues have to do with the fact that not all Americans are eligible for this type of care as they would be if they held citizenship in any other developed country.....repeat ANY OTHER DEVELOPED COUNTRY. In caps not to be irksome but only because I'm amazed to this day at how brainwashed Americans tend to be and how they let this country off the hook with something that can boil down to life and death - just so the wealthy can hoard more wealth. I'm not down with that nor will I ever be - just to be clear - there is nothing that could ever change my mind on this one. Period.

    But I'm for once not talking about me here. Really. I'm talking about my disgust that not all are eligible for the care I received and that for some Americans to this day this is perfectly acceptable. I worry for other people here and not just myself and I have always - and it hasn't been easy, trust me, given the way Americans overall tend to think, which is another reason I'm so into "the 85006" - seen my fellow citizens (sort of) as part of a collective. I know people who believe that American citizens are not worth being considered this way but I'm too much of a humanitarian not to think of others this way.

    And I'm not ungrateful. I'm merely fearful of and repulsed by a system in which human life truly is worth so little - do you yourself have a better explanation for the lack of socialized medicine in this country for all - given the fact, once again, that the US is the only developed country in which human life is not worth socialized medicine? There is no ingratitude in asking the hard questions and holding America accountable for this lack.....not that I can see, anyway.

    Has this my made my position more clear? Rob

  10. #70
    Senior Member catherine's Avatar
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    Two things: First, to Rob's point, here is a video about two sisters who both got breast cancer--one had stayed in Canada and had become a US citizen



    Second, I applaud Alan, and anyone, who suffered poverty and worked their way out in a matter-of-fact way, not in a way that cries "poor me."

    Third, Rob does get a little reactionary and repetitive when it comes to certain issues. I think if the volume were turned down, the message might be easier to hear.

    Fourth, when Rob talks about "his country vs Alan's country" or "the 85006" vs any American zip code, I think the profiling of his community goes beyond poverty and access to services. My interpretation of Rob's complaints is that there are pockets of humanity that are still treated unjustly by the powers in authority. Those people tend to be minorities, non-whites, and females. Rob is just asking us to recognize that, perhaps too stridently.

    I feel really lucky to be in this country, and I've lived a blessed life, but I also see a lot of room for improvement. It's great that our political process enables us to do what we can to change it.
    "Do any human beings ever realize life while they live it--every, every minute?" Emily Webb, Our Town
    www.silententry.wordpress.com

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