Total Money Makeover by Dave Ramsey

[Ultralight]

I don't know why people are giving him such a hard time.

I don't mind them giving me a hard time. I am a real scrapper. haha

I do expect them to state and defend their reasons for giving me a hard time.

[catherine]

I don't mind them giving me a hard time. I am a real scrapper. haha

Oh, I know you can stand up for yourself. I'm just reading your situation differently than some.

[Chicken lady]

Razz, I don’t think UL is “comfortable with the noise of debt around his neck” at all. I think he is trying to get rid of it as quickly as he can, and I don’t think he’s trying to rationalize, I think he’s trying to explain.

if you look at the facts and the math, he has no better choice.

yes, there are better choices -
get a job making twice as much money
inherit a couple hundred thousand dollars from a long lost rich uncle
win the lottery
to name three...

but for UL, they are imaginary scenerios, not real choices.

i’m sure If he found somebody who wanted to pay him twice as much her would jump at the opportunity (assuming the job seemed secure - it would suck to move, increase debt payments, lose the job, and have wasted all those years of undesirable employment....) he has looked for other jobs.

if you have the the winning lottery numbers he’d probably be willing to play them.

[LDAHL]

So I did the math. If I poured every red cent of my take home pay into my loans it would still take me 6 years to pay off the $165,000.

Anyone still think I should abandon the PSLF plan? haha

If you do elect to destroy yourself in a Stakhanovite effort to pay it off, I promise to lay a wreath on your grave every April 15.

[LDAHL]

I am reading that you are comfortable with the 'noose of debt' around your neck, limiting your employment opportunities, your freedom to move and live an alternative life. I couldn't do that so can understand others who are puzzled by your choice. It is your life and you live with the consequences of your choices as we all do. Stop trying to rationalize it to others.

I’m not getting that the noose isn’t chafing a bit. I’m getting that he is making the financially rational decision based on the available options. You say you couldn’t do that, but what would you do in his position? If his debt can’t be discharged in bankruptcy, and a highly paid more interesting job opportunity doesn’t present itself his range of alternatives would seem to be fairly limited.

[razz]

Yes, as Cath said, I wouldn't have taken on $165,000 debt. i would not have liked to feel trapped in a job. I would not like to be unable to move as life offers opportunities. That is my choice, mine alone. I am paranoid about debt. What I have is mine as much as it is possible for things to be. I don't insist that others need to understand that choice.

I would not query if someone chooses differently. EG - some at your age are taking on household mortgages at present to have a new house right now -$500,000 and more plus new car payments, basic living expenses and daycare costs. They want it all now! Others are making modest home choices, keeping cars for years and living on a strict budget as DH and I did.
Their choice, their consequences and none of my business.

That said, I don't think anyone is giving you a hard time as much as you keep raising it and explaining it in so many of your posts. Just let it go. Your choice, your consequences, your business.

Rationalize - 1. attempt to explain or justify (behaviour or an attitude) with logical reasons,

[ToomuchStuff]

Uh... what?

Next month I will have to spend roughly half my emergency fund on Harlan's dental care. Then in November I will have to spend the other half on car/renter insurance.


I will save the $1,000, then hammer at the medical debt, then build the real emergency fund.

no you can postpone student debt if you are unemployed, so not immediately (perhaps eventually)

My brain and typing do not agree. Yes he would have postponed until employed again and then thrown the money at the debt.

Debts:
$645 medica bill
$165,000 student loan

Can you explain more? I don't get what you are saying.

So your learning to budget, so known expenses are not emergencies. That is good.
However you said in that first post, that you were going to build that real emergency fund, which is step 3.
http://www.daveramsey.com/baby-steps

So, in your case, until step two is done, your going to be building a HUGE, $165K in the bank fund, and when you do actually get your loan(s), forgiven, then you would use that money to build your emergency fund and start investing for retirement. Not before.
If your loans are NOT one giant loan, but several, then you still need to be forthcoming and list them as separate. Then following the program, which you think is crazy, you would be somewhere between your estimates of what you would pay, and what you stated you thought was crazy.

[LDAHL]

I would be careful about blithely saying “Well, I would never fallen into that trap in the first place”. It’s of little use to the person in the trap, and it probably attracts the wrong kind of karma.

I do approve of some of the current proposals to make higher education publish data about the debts, employment and income of their graduates. It might give pause to students considering some of the less practical fields of study. I get the education-for-it’s-own-sake thing, but I can’t help but think the professoriate isn’t perhaps completely disinterested in exploiting the less realistic dreams of their customer base.

[catherine]

I would be careful about blithely saying “Well, I would never fallen into that trap in the first place”. It’s of little use to the person in the trap, and it probably attracts the wrong kind of karma.

Yes, it takes longer for some of us to learn life's lessons. It's what you do with the teachings that counts.

[LDAHL]

Yes, it takes longer for some of us to learn life's lessons. It's what you do with the teachings that counts.

Who of us wouldn’t like to go back in time and slap some sense into our younger selves?