Reflections of a break-up

[Ultralight]

I am reflecting on what caused my recent break-up, what I would want in future relationships (and if I actually do want future relationships), and how I can do better.

Some of these things I have thought about before, some I have not, and some I have just not taken as seriously as I ought to.

One thing I was thinking about is how I simply must find someone who is also a minimalist. I have known this but did not take it seriously. But this absolutely has to be a deal breaker issue.

I have asked my closest friend and confidante to remind me of this when I start dating again. She is to really get on my case about it!

Another point I reflected on is how I need to make this very clear to anyone I date: My facial expressions, tone of voice, and meaning in my communication are not always congruent and to always trust what I say.

Sometimes my tone sounds fake or bland or upset when I am not any of those. Same goes for my facial expressions. This lack of congruence has been a longstanding problem in my interactions with other humans.

Anyone else go through break-ups recent or in the distant past that taught you some important lessons?

[Williamsmith]

Is your “minimalism” bordering on religious fanaticism and possibly projected onto your relationships to the point that you treat your partners as objects? It would explain some things. While I believe minimalistic attitudes are beneficial to a wholesome and fulfilled lifestyle.....I also think taken to the extreme, it can be detrimental to ones relationships. My drawer full of rolled up socks, underwear and t-shirts Marie Kondo style drives my wife crazy but she tolerates my idiocincrisies. Plenty of working relationships consist of persons with wildly different opinions and beliefs.

[Ultralight]

Is your “minimalism” bordering on religious fanaticism and possibly projected onto your relationships to the point that you treat your partners as objects? It would explain some things. While I believe minimalistic attitudes are beneficial to a wholesome and fulfilled lifestyle.....I also think taken to the extreme, it can be detrimental to ones relationships. My drawer full of rolled up socks, underwear and t-shirts Marie Kondo style drives my wife crazy but she tolerates my idiocincrisies. Plenty of working relationships consist of persons with wildly different opinions and beliefs.

I would say that minimalism is like my religion. And as I told the women I have dated: "If you want to marry the Rabbi then you have to convert to Judaism. I am the Rabbi of minimalism."

But as for treating people like objects, I am not sure what you mean. Can you explain more?

[Williamsmith]

As a religious observer of minimalism.....is it possible that the focus of your life being reducing the number of things could be translated to your partner. That you look at them more “objectively” than you do relationally. I can say that my experience has taught me that relationship relies on sacrifice and compromise. Religious diligence can become intolerance and that becomes a threat to your partner. In other words, a relationship puts your partner first over your ideology because even though there are disagreements both can still pull in the same direction given mutual compromise.

[herbgeek]

But as for treating people like objects, I am not sure what you mean. Can you explain more?

I'm responding even though I'm not the person that said it.

When your dream person is a very long list of attributes, to me, it sounds very much like you are purchasing a product off of Amazon. You might get exactly what you asked for, but you also could be missing wonderful serendipity, and traits you never thought you would want/like.

[Tybee]

As a religious observer of minimalism.....is it possible that the focus of your life being reducing the number of things could be translated to your partner. That you look at them more “objectively” than you do relationally. I can say that my experience has taught me that relationship relies on sacrifice and compromise. Religious diligence can become intolerance and that becomes a threat to your partner. In other words, a relationship puts your partner first over your ideology because even though there are disagreements both can still pull in the same direction given mutual compromise.

William, I think this is a really good generalization about how relationships work. It's another way of saying, "Do you want to be right, or do you want to be happy?"

[Zoe Girl]

I would say that minimalism is like my religion. And as I told the women I have dated: "If you want to marry the Rabbi then you have to convert to Judaism. I am the Rabbi of minimalism."

But as for treating people like objects, I am not sure what you mean. Can you explain more?

See that is where I fundamentally disagree, I don't think you both need to be Jewish. Love and relationships are not about being the same, but about appreciating each other and caring deeply about the welfare of the other person. My parents, who have been married 50 years, almost dress alike at this point, However they have had to compromise. My dad would like nothing on the walls and almost no decorations. My mom wants and likes those things. So they have somewhere in the middle, and my mom has her office she can spread out projects in as much as she likes, my dad has his tools organized very carefully. Sometimes they fuss as each other (my mom bough single ply toilet paper after all) but they work it out.

You said on another thread that minimalists are individualistic, so how is is to have an expectation that another person is individualistic however is also in agreement with you? One person could be a minimalist in another style after all, have few kitchen supplies and eat out all the time, while you may have a kitchen that is well equipped to be minimalist about going out. One person could have a lot of clothes because they collected over the years and don't care to shop but always having something nice to wear, another could have a small wardrobe and be willing to shop immediately if something is needed.

[SteveinMN]

Anyone else go through break-ups recent or in the distant past that taught you some important lessons?

Ha. Hee-hee! Who hasn't?

IMHO if a person doesn't learn some useful/valuable things about themselves after a breakup they just aren't paying attention and they're going to make the same mistake in the future. Not that the lesson always has to be negative: I was fine with dating someone for a while and learning, "Oh, I didn't think that was important to me but it turns out it really is!". To me, that's the "work" of ending a relationship, and it has to be done for growth to occur.

I did much better in relationships when I a) cast a wider net; and b) approached meeting a woman as possibly making a new friend rather than as a romantic partner. I found this took a lot of the pressure off the relationship. I have several friends who have some values quite different from mine. Sure, there are some initial dealbreakers: I don't want to be friends with someone who smokes (tobacco, anyway); I would have a hard time sharing values with someone who voted for tRump and doesn't now regret it. But I can be friends with people who like to buy all the toys and the house to put them in, or who love death metal music or eating circus peanuts. Surely you have friends who are not African-American or into minimalism or traveling?

If a new friendship deepens I can then apply any remaining dealbreakers and preferences and choose to stay friends without becoming full-time romantic partners. (I'm fully aware that I am not the sole decider in this; it can work the other way, too.) This also helps avoid the trap of staying in a relationship you don't care for because you don't want to give up the sex (not saying that's the case for you but it is for some people).

Like many people, I have this mental fantasy about "the perfect person on paper". DW does not tick all the boxes on that list. Neither does the other woman I've loved most in my life (n.b., not my first wife). Yet I will happily share the rest of my life with DW based on who she actually is (same would go for that other woman, too; that one was not my decision). But I had to be open to going "off the menu" and finding someone I truly liked and appreciated.

[LDAHL]

Listen to Steve.

If you can get 80% of what you’re looking for from one person who is willing to tolerate you, grab her. I don’t mean literally grab her. That would be wrong.

If ever there was an area of life where the perfect was the enemy of the good, it is relationships. Take it from an old fussy guy who bumbled into something wonderful despite himself

[catherine]

One thing I was thinking about is how I simply must find someone who is also a minimalist. I have known this but did not take it seriously. But this absolutely has to be a deal breaker issue.

I'm not going to get on your case about making minimalism an essential shared value, and a "deal breaker." We all have deal breakers of some kind. I wouldn't date a married man, for instance. My son's ex-gf's deal-breaker was no alcohol, ever, and he couldn't live with that so they broke up, even though he was madly in love with her. Some people think smoking is a deal-breaker.

So it's not a huge deal about the minimalism thing. It might be really hard to find someone though. I don't think there are many minimalists out there. Are there any minimalist dating sites around?

I am sorry about the break up, but glad you are using it as a tool for self-awareness.

As for me, I can only say that there were times over the 41 years we've been married when I WISHED DH and I would break up. But, looking at the big picture, I think we're stuck with each other for better or worse, for richer for poorer, in sickness and health. My take-away from that is "the heart has its reasons which reason knows not."