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Thread: Is U.S. Capitalism On The Brink Of Collapse?

  1. #61
    Senior Member Williamsmith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ToomuchStuff View Post
    Because no one has ever been sick of being poor before in this country or any other?

    What defines what is "fair"? How does the evolving definition of poverty, middle class, etc. affect that? (I remember poverty as having no air conditioning, refrigeration, or a tv at one point, where phones were shared/party lines)
    Then I take it, you’d be alright if someone paid $5 an hour as long as people could have a roof over their head, a block of ice and maybe a fiddle to entertain themselves with.....cause I can take you to certain places in West Virginia and you could explain to them your concept of fair.

  2. #62
    Senior Member Williamsmith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bae View Post
    Could you show us the math on that?
    My entire extended family produced steel and supported their two or three kids on the old man’s wages. But no air conditioning, carpet or cable tv. I will admit to that.

  3. #63
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    I think many of us who grew up in the 1950s recall a time when many moms stayed home and Dad had a job that could support the family. It seemed like most of us were middle class rather than the sharp divides seen today. My mom worked as she was the oddball who got divorced in 1964 but even with that, she was able to buy a house and send three kids to college on a starting salary of around $6K a year and ending at $27K when she retired years later. I don't know what the answer is today but it doesn't feel/seem like the future will be bright for a majority Americans.

  4. #64
    Senior Member bae's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Williamsmith View Post
    My entire extended family produced steel and supported their two or three kids on the old mans wages. But no air conditioning, carpet or cable tv. I will admit to that.
    Were those unskilled non-union steel jobs? Any idea what they paid?

  5. #65
    Simpleton Alan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teacher Terry View Post
    In the 1950s unskilled workers could support their families on one income.
    Maybe in your neck of the woods they could, but in mine it was another story. I always get a kick out hearing people who grew up in the middle class talk about how it was for everyone, without even seeming to realize their error.

    I know I've mentioned this before but when I grew up in the 50's and 60's, extreme poverty was the only thing I, my extended family and everyone we knew had ever experienced. But my first hand experience showed me that every one of us with the desire to do so could do much better than those who came before us, and that those without the desire to do so did not. Some people happily follow the path of least resistance without regard to the long term effects. Capitalism and Free Markets allowed us to prosper or not, depending upon our motivations. I see nothing in our current climate that changes anyone else's ability to do the same.
    "Things should be made as simple as possible, but not one bit simpler." ~ Albert Einstein

  6. #66
    Simpleton Alan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Williamsmith View Post
    Alan, do you really believe that anyone who criticizes capitalism is trying to usher in socialism or another defined anti capitalist economic system? ..

    ..Why are emotions always mentioned?
    As for the first question, socialism always comes up in these discussions as an alternative to our current system.

    The other thing that always comes up is income inequality and the inference that it must be eliminated and is a danger to our country and society. Well, in reality it's only a danger to our society if we can convince enough people that the wealthy are taking away what is rightfully theirs and encourage a form of government (socialism) which will pillage the successful in order to prop up the less successful. The rational view is to encourage and support the less successful as they aspire to be more successful as this keeps everyone motivated to improve. The emotional view takes away the motivation but does provide immediate gratification, which is not sustainable. That's why I mention it.
    "Things should be made as simple as possible, but not one bit simpler." ~ Albert Einstein

  7. #67
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    People do not like that the next generation will do as well as they did, among other things because life expectancies are falling. But things can't go up forever and I think most people realize this. Revolutions actually are more common in times of rising expectations that are not met or not met quickly enough. With falling expectations there is greater risk of fascism and other reactionary regimes as people hunker down in fear and resentment.

  8. #68
    Senior Member bae's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan View Post
    The other thing that always comes up is income inequality and the inference that it must be eliminated and is a danger to our country and society.
    So I'm thinking I should only bake enough pies for myself then. Seems it'd be fairer to the other folks.

  9. #69
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    Unskilled factory jobs paid a living wage in the 1950’s in Wisconsin. Not everyone is capable of attaining higher education to obtain a good job. Look at the bell curve. Also many people with degrees don’t have good jobs. Many jobs don’t exist due to automation. Driving jobs support a ton of people and eventually those will be gone with self driving vehicles. Just one example of technology eliminating jobs.

  10. #70
    Simpleton Alan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teacher Terry View Post
    Just one example of technology eliminating jobs.
    And creating new ones.
    "Things should be made as simple as possible, but not one bit simpler." ~ Albert Einstein

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