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Thread: FIRE "Financial Independence, Retire Early"

  1. #51
    Senior Member Williamsmith's Avatar
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    I think some sort of guaranteed national income would be simpler and more transparent than the current mess we have with welfare. It would actually remove government intervention in the lives of poor people. And cash directly addresses poverty in a way no other can.

    I don’t know what it has to do with early retirement but oh well.

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by LDAHL View Post
    Sure but donít programs already exist for them? Depending on how generous the UBI program was, wouldnít we need to consider the potential dangers of creating a large parasitic class? Even the magical kingdoms of Europe havenít attempted such a thing.
    I thought at least in the UK you can be "on the dole" forever unlike in the US where unemployment benefits are short term. Am I wrong?

  3. #53
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    They mean disability, not unemployment, which if we are talking different levels of intelligence and that actually means mental retardation might be a possibility. Some disability you need to have worked to collect and some not I believe.

    If less intelligent wasn't code for mentally retarded I propose most people are less intelligent. Are you at the level of Einstein? Nope. Well then (and neither am I).

    Unemployment insurance in 6 months now, however the counselor at the local unemployment agency told me "what we see is people are taking 6 months to a year to get a job now, that's pretty normal".
    If you want something to get done, ask a busy person. If you want them to have a nervous breakdown that is.

  4. #54
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    SSI is for poor people that are disabled but don’t have 40 quarters of work. SSDI is for people that are disabled and have 40 quarters. SSI tends to be small monthly amounts usually between 300-500/month. Not enough to live on. Intellectually disabled is when you have a IQ below 70. Some of these people can work with supports and some can’t. Some people may not read well, have physical disabilities and may not be retrainable if the person is older. Disability is incredibly difficult to get and often takes 2 years.

  5. #55
    Senior Member catherine's Avatar
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    As progressive/liberal/Democratic socialist as I am, I'm on the fence about the Universal Basic Income. During this conversation we've been having about capitalism, I'm wondering if UBI is a band-aid to cover up the symptoms of come of the serious cracks in American capitalism as we know it today. Would we be better off addressing some of the more systemic issues? In my mind leveling the playing field might include:

    Single payer universal healthcare (to get rid of anxieties about getting sick)
    Redirect corporate subsidies to industries that support local economies
    Overturn Citizen's United (as was mentioned earlier)
    Go back to a more progressive tax or even a flat tax--anything to close tax loopholes.
    Get lobbyists out of Washington.
    Encourage housing acquisition models like the Champlain Housing Trust to help people gain access to their own homes.

    I feel that while UBI is a great idea, I think it's like covering a crumbled cake with icing to hold it together.
    "Do any human beings ever realize life while they live it--every, every minute?" Emily Webb, Our Town
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  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yppej View Post
    I thought at least in the UK you can be "on the dole" forever unlike in the US where unemployment benefits are short term. Am I wrong?
    My opinion was formed from the character of Onslow on the British sitcom "Keeping Up Appearances".

  7. #57
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    This fairly recent article has a lot of info in it regarding the UK. Note: the whole system in in somewhat of a crisis due to Brexit, the Universal Credit, and the costs of the NHS.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics...in-facts-myths

  8. #58
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    We do currently have cash directly to the working poor with kids and it is called the Earned Income Credit. It is the 3rd largest welfare program after Medicaid and food stamps. If a person files correctly, they get a once a year check that could amount to around $500 a month. Loads and loads of problems with the program.

    Wikipedia has an extensive article about EITC and here is one paragraph:

    For tax year 2013, the maximum EITC benefit for a single person or couple filing without qualifying children is $487. The maximum EITC with one qualifying child is $3,250, with two children, it is $5,372, and with three or more qualifying children, it is $6,044.[3][4] These amounts are indexed annually for inflation.

  9. #59
    Senior Member Williamsmith's Avatar
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    With regard to welfare programs such as the EIC, good intentions don’t justify failed programs. The EIC incentivized having children for the sake of squirming out of poverty. And many of these children whose existence provides an income, live in squalor because they reason they came about had mostly to do with income, not love.

    A guaranteed national income potentially treats people more like adults. It incentivized good positive activity like work, marriage and setting aside a little bit for a rainy day. Our current welfare system treats its recipients like children with in-kind benefits reaped by manipulating their lives so they qualify. A GNI is simpler and can be transitioned by gradually eliminating and consolidating existing anti poverty programs burdened with administrative costs with cash to support attempts at self sufficiency.

    In my view, welfare recipients are looked at as people who lack character and and are parasites. Well, the system developed them. The system is responsible for the current mess. Not the people.

  10. #60
    Senior Member catherine's Avatar
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    Here is just one of a million videos that explains why single-payer universal healthcare is not just a Communist plot or a pipe dream by people that believe in unicorns.

    "Do any human beings ever realize life while they live it--every, every minute?" Emily Webb, Our Town
    www.silententry.wordpress.com

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