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Thread: Economic Outpatient Care

  1. #11
    Senior Member Ultralight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ApatheticNoMore View Post
    I know people who are lazy but that's more middle class than anything that would actually qualify as wealthy.

    But helping with downpayments on houses, I'm sure it's done by parents all the time and it's normal (it's how various ethnicities get ahead - they help family out etc.), how else would anyone get started with housing around here. I'm not saying all parents are doing it or can afford it, but then renters are a significant part of the population anyway.

    Apparently his parents told him that the downpayment for the house would be coming out of his inheritance. But he really wanted that house. His wife thought it was too much house for their salaries "but it was just what he was used to."
    I came from a real tough neighborhood. I put my hand in some cement and felt another hand." -- Rodney Dangerfield

  2. #12
    Senior Member Ultralight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ApatheticNoMore View Post

    although I do half imagine his wife's thinking: well if someone is going to go back to school, it should probably be him, as men make more over a lifetime ...
    That is the past, not the future.
    I came from a real tough neighborhood. I put my hand in some cement and felt another hand." -- Rodney Dangerfield

  3. #13
    Senior Member catherine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultralight View Post
    Is this what you were talking about in the other thread?

    I just found out two people I work with are really, really on the EOC plan. I was actually taken aback by it...
    Backstory on BIL: When he was 3 (DH was 12), my MIL suddenly became a widow when her husband had a fatal stroke. She couldn't drive, she didn't work at that time--she had come to the US from Scotland and she and her husband were apartment building supervisors and then he bought into a car dealership. Life was looking good until he died and left her alone with 2 kids.

    She learned how to drive, and she got a job as a clerk in Macy's. Her parents moved in with her, and every time she tried to go out in the evening her mother would tell her "Don't forget you have wains at home." (wains=kids). Big guilt trip on MIL. And if you don't go out, you don't get the chance to find another partner to help you through life. She never even dated after her husband died.

    MIL pressed DH into service as the man of the house, but at 17 DH joined the Marines, and then came back and met me and we got married. So BIL and MIL developed a codependent, symbiotic relationship. She discouraged him from going away to college. She didn't trust him to walk to the mailbox to mail a letter. When he got a job as an adult, she got up at 6 to make him his lunch. She also never, ever asked him for rent, or food money, even when he was making a full-time wage. He would go to the supermarket and buy the most expensive artisanal cheeses and meats and put it on her credit card. Meanwhile, she brought her own tea bags to restaurants and asked for hot water, and inspected every receipt for errors in the store's favor and then fought for every nickel .

    But she also would criticize him--tell him he would never do this or that. When he forayed out to the West Coast to see if he would like living there, she would send him letters telling him he'd never make it and he should come home. He gave in after 3 months.

    When he got fired from a full-time retail job, he didn't go back to work for a couple of years, and later that's when the seasonal low-wage jobs came in. He's 10 years younger than I am, but he had no computer skills whatsoever. None. He basically became cocooned in his mother's house and never left until she died. And then you know the rest of the story.

    Yes, DH and I unfortunately did a lot of carrying the same torch since MIL died, but the damage had been done. When he spent money to go to a community college 4 years ago, he simply floundered in the most basic classes, despite hours and hours of tutoring from DH and I. Not because he wasn't trying--because of his cognitive issues and also because he never had used his brain for basic stuff for his entire life.

    So while anyone could say we've been enabling, the fact is, if you don't hand a crutch to someone who can't walk, is that enabling or is that accepting that that person needs help? DH and I struggle with that all the time.

    And then, of course, there's my MIL's deathbed instruction to DH: "Take care of your brother."
    "Do any human beings ever realize life while they live it--every, every minute?" Emily Webb, Our Town
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  4. #14
    Senior Member Ultralight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by catherine View Post
    Backstory on BIL: When he was 3 (DH was 12), my MIL suddenly became a widow when her husband had a fatal stroke. She couldn't drive, she didn't work at that time--she had come to the US from Scotland and she and her husband were apartment building supervisors and then he bought into a car dealership. Life was looking good until he died and left her alone with 2 kids.

    She learned how to drive, and she got a job as a clerk in Macy's. Her parents moved in with her, and every time she tried to go out in the evening her mother would tell her "Don't forget you have wains at home." (wains=kids). Big guilt trip on MIL. And if you don't go out, you don't get the chance to find another partner to help you through life. She never even dated after her husband died.

    MIL pressed DH into service as the man of the house, but at 17 DH joined the Marines, and then came back and met me and we got married. So BIL and MIL developed a codependent, symbiotic relationship. She discouraged him from going away to college. She didn't trust him to walk to the mailbox to mail a letter. When he got a job as an adult, she got up at 6 to make him his lunch. She also never, ever asked him for rent, or food money, even when he was making a full-time wage. He would go to the supermarket and buy the most expensive artisanal cheeses and meats and put it on her credit card. Meanwhile, she brought her own tea bags to restaurants and asked for hot water, and inspected every receipt for errors in the store's favor and then fought for every nickel .

    But she also would criticize him--tell him he would never do this or that. When he forayed out to the West Coast to see if he would like living there, she would send him letters telling him he'd never make it and he should come home. He gave in after 3 months.

    When he got fired from a full-time retail job, he didn't go back to work for a couple of years, and later that's when the seasonal low-wage jobs came in. He's 10 years younger than I am, but he had no computer skills whatsoever. None. He basically became cocooned in his mother's house and never left until she died. And then you know the rest of the story.

    Yes, DH and I unfortunately did a lot of carrying the same torch since MIL died, but the damage had been done. When he spent money to go to a community college 4 years ago, he simply floundered in the most basic classes, despite hours and hours of tutoring from DH and I. Not because he wasn't trying--because of his cognitive issues and also because he never had used his brain for basic stuff for his entire life.

    So while anyone could say we've been enabling, the fact is, if you don't hand a crutch to someone who can't walk, is that enabling or is that accepting that that person needs help? DH and I struggle with that all the time.

    And then, of course, there's my MIL's deathbed instruction to DH: "Take care of your brother."
    Your BIL is probably your cross to bear.
    I came from a real tough neighborhood. I put my hand in some cement and felt another hand." -- Rodney Dangerfield

  5. #15
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    Catherine, you guys didn’t create the monster but now have to deal with it. I feel sorry for all of you including him. I used to tell parents of kids that were disabled the sooner we can get them into the work force and productive the better the child will be when the parents pass away. We would start working with kids at 16 to prepare for the future. Obviously depending on how severe the disability is, etc.

  6. #16
    Senior Member jp1's Avatar
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    My senior year of college I lived off campus with some friends. Our next door neighbors were an older couple with a 30-something son who was mentally handicapped. He was functional, loved fire engines and Michael Jackson, and was very excited the entire month of his birthday. We went to his birthday party and gave him a video tape of Yellow Submarine. For the rest of the school year anytime he saw any of us he would sing Yellow Submarine so we obviously picked a suitable gift. But I often wondered what was going to happen to him after his parents died. His sister lived literally as far away as possible while still being in the US (Alaska vs. Miami) so she wasn't at all involved in his life.

  7. #17
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    That is the type of situation where he could have worked, done chores at home and lived in a group setting with supports. Parents do their kids no favors. It was not a fun conversation to have.

  8. #18
    Senior Member Ultralight's Avatar
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    I am really wondering how widespread EOC of the children of the wealthy is...
    I came from a real tough neighborhood. I put my hand in some cement and felt another hand." -- Rodney Dangerfield

  9. #19
    Senior Member iris lilies's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultralight View Post
    I am really wondering how widespread EOC of the children of the wealthy is...
    It is not unusual here for grandparents to pay all or part of private school bills because the public schools suck. When you live in this neighborhood you dont send your children to public schools, although wedo have a new charter school in the neighborhood, and that is drawing many children from this immediate area.

    I know a couple of people with real money, old money, it is in a family trust. From what I can get in bits and pieces over the years, these old trusts like to pay for education and sometimes down payments on houses. Once I was shocked to hear that one of them was paying for a subscription to the Wall Street Journal. I thought that was funny. This was someone who could afford to pay for a subscription to the Wall Street Journal himself. He is the same one who shared brief stories about life in a genteel house. He said that when he was a kid he went upstairs to the attic of his family house and discovered a grand piano! That attic had to be pretty big to house that and have it be a surprise. He is the same person who said that his parents had no idea how to make coffee because they’ve always had household help to make the coffee.

  10. #20
    Senior Member bae's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultralight View Post
    I am really wondering how widespread EOC of the children of the wealthy is...
    Well, I paid 100% of the tuition/room/board for my daughter's undergraduate education, as she wouldn't have qualified for financial aid, and it seemed cruel to task her with taking out $200k of loans for a Classics degree. And we'll be paying for her PhD program as well, as the market for Anglo-Saxon/Norse/Celtic language academic specialists is a bit thin.

    And then in my old age she can support me on her lofty professor's salary.

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