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Thread: How long do we hold people responsible for sins of the past?

  1. #1
    Senior Member CathyA's Avatar
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    How long do we hold people responsible for sins of the past?

    This thing with Kavanaugh has got me to thinking. How many of us would "pass" if we had done something offensive in our teens? I don't want to see Kavanaugh in the Supreme Court......but maybe not because of what he did in high school. It got me to thinking.........how long do we hold people responsible and punish them for things done long ago, when it doesn't seem to be anything they continued to do, and have even done very good things since then?

  2. #2
    Senior Member JaneV2.0's Avatar
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    They're still sentencing people for WWII war crimes.

    I never attempted to sexually or physically assault, rob, or commit any other felony at any age. (And apparently, he is implicated in many such "boys will be boys" assaults.) All in a day's play for the smirking preppie.

    He's also perjured himself on several occasions, apparently.

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    To me, the crux of the issue here isn't what K may or may not have done in HS, but that he's very likely lying about it now. It's something any teenage boy might do if drunk enough (and definitely something a lot of the jock/frat boy types I knew in HS and college might have done, drunk or not). His accuser is credible, but K's response hasn't been, well, maybe things got out of hand, maybe she misunderstood, it was just horseplay, etc. etc., it has been categorical denial. Same thing with this new accusation that has just surfaced--unqualified denial, the Trump way.

    I don't like to traffic in stereotypes, but in this case I'm willing to make an exception. From all I can gather K fits the privileged frat boy profile perfectly, and like I say, I knew plenty of guys like that. K's response of flat denial to the accusations means somebody's lying, which means you have to choose who to believe, and I believe her.

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    Cosby is likely going to prison for crimes he committed 35 years ago. One of the Kennedy’s went to prison decades after he killed a girl in high school. None of my kids commitedva crime against women as teens. Basic decency.

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    I absolutely think people should be forgiven at a certain point and the past let go. Ha, sometimes this is after serving a sentence but no noone should be held responsible forever. It's cruel and unusual.

    It's like the Morgan Freeman character in the shawshank redemption, where he says something like: I don't even remember the young man who did that. It really is like this in real life sometimes where one's personality has so changed that they aren't the same person who did that once (although one first has to admit to the simple facts of having done what they did if they did it, even if the reasons are long forgotten. If they were too drug addled to even remember I don't know what to say). Even murderers should be forgiven at a certain point? Well yes, at a certain point IF it is likely they are no longer a danger to society (and I realize this gets into major gray areas of how to determine this). But that's the ultimate crime, everything else is less extreme.

    However Kavanaugh, ugh I don't care. I mean ordinary people already are haunted by their pasts forever, ordinary people struggling through life, and at that point I see little reason to sympathize with the powerful. Protection under the law and a fair trail? Sure, of course everyone should have this though they don't, but that applies to trials and it's NOT a trail, it's a job interview for supreme court justice. And Kavanaugh is surprised noone owe him a job! I'm more concerned with ordinary people who may have did something less than ideal once and have their economic and other futures ruined by it than with him. In fact is he going to make the system any more humane? Uh I doubt that is his viewpoint, so he's also a hypocrite then, probably having learned nothing and repented nothing.
    If you want something to get done, ask a busy person. If you want them to have a nervous breakdown that is.

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    I think many of us have done foolish things in our youth but we are not nominated for the Supreme Court. He should be held to a higher standard. And this crap of a lifetime appointment needs to be over..........

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    Senior Member CathyA's Avatar
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    Good post ApatheticNoMore. I wish I could write my ideas better. I sure wish we could get the truth all the time.
    And I totally agree Tenngal........it seems ridiculous to have a lifetime appointment.
    I know it's probably easier for someone who wasn't sexually assaulted in the past, or had a loved-one murdered, etc. to feel there should be a point where the perpetrators are forgiven. I'm not sure how I really feel about the issue. There's so many things to consider.
    But.....as Susan Collins put it.........the important part for her is determining if K has been lying. I'm sure she's not minimizing what he may have done to Dr. Ford, but focusing in on his possible dishonesty, from a different perspective. One that is probably more reason to not confirm him, than his "teenage bad judgement" in today's political climate.

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    Forever. I hold people responsible forever. Because no matter what you may have done to render yourself incapable of making intelligent decisions, you are still responsible for your behavior.

    I have messed up. And I own it. And if there is somehing I can do to make up for things I have messed up, I have a responsibility to do it. Hopefully I am the person who has learned and grown from the messing up, but I am still the person who did it.

    if you loan me something and I lose it and I replace it and it only had material value, so you are out nothing, I can tell you how sorry I am, and how much more careful I will be, but it is still your choice when or if to ever feel comfortable loaning me anything ever again, and I have no right to demand your trust.

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    Senior Member Williamsmith's Avatar
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    I can’t believe either side. I have no way of knowing. I have read the first accusers statement and it is very concise and well written. The accusation is far more serious than a “groping”. I’m more interested in the ability of K. to devote 100% of his energy to Supreme Court business. These accusations are not going away. He’s going to be distracted dealing with them. To say nothing of the turmoil this is causing. We have plenty of qualified jurists. Keep nominating until you find one whose past isn’t problematic. I would withdraw from the nomination process if I were K. Judges don’t particularly do well on the witness stand. Although, they always feel like they would. Eventually, if this is some “conspiracy” it will become a real farce if the next nominee runs into the same issues.

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    I agree with CL. People should be held responsible forever. Don’t do the crime if you can’t do the time.

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