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Thread: Happy Columbus Day

  1. #11
    Simpleton Alan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by catherine View Post
    Can we celebrate our success at extinguishing the indigenous?
    No, we have to give credit to disease such as measles and smallpox.
    What makes the white man so special?
    The evolution of antibodies?
    "Things should be made as simple as possible, but not one bit simpler." ~ Albert Einstein

  2. #12
    Senior Member catherine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan View Post
    No, we have to give credit to disease such as measles and smallpox.
    The evolution of antibodies?[/FONT][/COLOR][/LEFT]
    Really??

    As my Scottish MIL would say, "give me a break."
    "Do any human beings ever realize life while they live it--every, every minute?" Emily Webb, Our Town
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  3. #13
    Simpleton Alan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by catherine View Post
    Really??

    As my Scottish MIL would say, "give me a break."
    http://americanhistory.oxfordre.com/...0199329175-e-3

    "Discussions about genocide in the Americas often begin with the moment of initial contact between Europeans and Native people and emphasize the catastrophic impact of European diseases (especially smallpox and measles) for which Indians had no acquired immunity. Until the 1960s, scholars lacked an appreciation for the massive loss of life from what Alfred Crosby termed “virgin soil epidemics,” and so they drastically understated the size of the pre-Columbian Western Hemisphere population. A standard estimate was 8 million for the entire hemisphere and 1 million north of the Rio Grande. In the 1960s, however, the anthropologist Henry Dobyns took account of disease to provide much higher estimates of 75 million for the hemisphere and 10–12 million north of Mexico. Although Dobyns’s estimates have been hotly debated, even advocates of much lower figures acknowledge the impact of devastating epidemics.1
    Advocates of the “yes it was genocide” position have generally accepted high estimates for the pre-Columbian population and a correspondingly very high figure for initial depopulation. If 75 million people lived in in the Western Hemisphere in 1491 and the death toll from epidemic disease was 70, 80, or even 90 percent (as was sometimes the case), the sheer numbers (50–60 million) are overwhelming and compel recognition as genocide when measured against the numbers for commonly accepted cases of genocide in the twentieth century."
    "Things should be made as simple as possible, but not one bit simpler." ~ Albert Einstein

  4. #14
    Senior Member catherine's Avatar
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    Sorry, Alan, what is your interpretation of that quote?
    "Do any human beings ever realize life while they live it--every, every minute?" Emily Webb, Our Town
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  5. #15
    Simpleton Alan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by catherine View Post
    Sorry, Alan, what is your interpretation of that quote?
    Well, there's much more research on the subject than the couple of paragraphs provided but my interpretation is that perhaps as much as three quarters of the native population of the Americas died from diseases which Europeans had already developed antibodies.
    "Things should be made as simple as possible, but not one bit simpler." ~ Albert Einstein

  6. #16
    Senior Member catherine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan View Post
    Well, there's much more research on the subject than the couple of paragraphs provided but my interpretation is that perhaps as much as three quarters of the native population of the Americas died from diseases which Europeans had already developed antibodies.
    So, we did indirectly kill the majority of them, just by virtue of our presence and our contamination of disease that they couldn't protect themselves against. In addition, you can't deny that we directly overcame them and forced them into reservations. Lucky that we were on the dominant side of this clash, isn't it?
    "Do any human beings ever realize life while they live it--every, every minute?" Emily Webb, Our Town
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  7. #17
    Simpleton Alan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by catherine View Post
    So, we did indirectly kill the majority of them.....
    I can't speak for anyone else but I didn't and I suspect neither did you.

    In addition, you can't deny that we directly overcame them and forced them into reservations.
    Nope, I never have denied it and never will.

    Lucky that we were on the dominant side of this clash, isn't it?
    I think that was a little before our time but, yeah, I suppose so.

    "Things should be made as simple as possible, but not one bit simpler." ~ Albert Einstein

  8. #18
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    As is my tradition I planted garlic. Zemo and Killarney Red varieties this year.

  9. #19
    Senior Member iris lilies's Avatar
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    LDahl knew full well what he was stirring when he posted this.

  10. #20
    Senior Member catherine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan View Post
    I can't speak for anyone else but I didn't and I suspect neither did you.

    Nope, I never have denied it and never will.

    I think that was a little before our time but, yeah, I suppose so. [/FONT][/COLOR][/LEFT]
    [/FONT][/COLOR][/LEFT]
    Mea culpa. Mea maxima culpa.
    "Do any human beings ever realize life while they live it--every, every minute?" Emily Webb, Our Town
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