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Thread: OH Canna-bis^^ My Home .....

  1. #21
    Senior Member razz's Avatar
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    Rubbish, I say!!!!!

    How many people are killed or maimed for a lifetime due to inebriated drivers? How many families are in anguish due to another's OD on an opioid? How many dollars are spent out of limited family income or trigger robberies to indulge these "choices" as you call them. How many precious healthcare resources are spent on assisting those that indulge from living with the tragic consequences of their choices.

    Come on, Idahl, the flippant comment is not your usual intelligent response to a very complex issue. Am I being a moral arbiter by raising these concerns about those that indulge?

    If one chooses to indulge


    Quote Originally Posted by LDAHL View Post
    Even if it doesn’t turn out to be a golden age of self-medication, I think people should be allowed to indulge in any substance they like. No need to clothe it in clouds of righteousness. We shouldn’t need to defend our vices to any moral arbiters.
    As Cicero said, “Gratitude is not only the greatest of virtues, but the parent of all the others.”

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by razz View Post
    Rubbish, I say!!!!!

    How many people are killed or maimed for a lifetime due to inebriated drivers? How many families are in anguish due to another's OD on an opioid? How many dollars are spent out of limited family income or trigger robberies to indulge these "choices" as you call them. How many precious healthcare resources are spent on assisting those that indulge from living with the tragic consequences of their choices.

    Come on, Idahl, the flippant comment is not your usual intelligent response to a very complex issue. Am I being a moral arbiter by raising these concerns about those that indulge?

    If one chooses to indulge
    We’ve tried the prohibition route on any number of fronts. How well has it worked out?

    In my view, the burden should be on government to justify restrictions on the individual, not on the individual to justify liberties to be retained. There’s no need to paint pot as a wonder drug, it should be left to individuals to choose. Would I be more confident in our future if we were a more sober, less self-indulgent society? Yes, but I see that as more a cultural issue than a social engineering problem.

  3. #23
    Senior Member JaneV2.0's Avatar
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    I don't think the choice is between blissed-out libertinism (is that word? and strait-laced joyless priggery. I suppose as a society we're more self-indulgent than, say, North Korea, but given a choice...

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by JaneV2.0 View Post
    I don't think the choice is between blissed-out libertinism (is that word? and strait-laced joyless priggery. I suppose as a society we're more self-indulgent than, say, North Korea, but given a choice...
    I would certainly agree that there is some wiggle room between decadence and Puritanism. My preference would be for a society with decadence as an option but where the vast majority maintain those good old bourgeois values voluntarily. Ultimately freedom has to rest on a base of virtue.

  5. #25
    Senior Member JaneV2.0's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LDAHL View Post
    I would certainly agree that there is some wiggle room between decadence and Puritanism. My preference would be for a society with decadence as an option but where the vast majority maintain those good old bourgeois values voluntarily. Ultimately freedom has to rest on a base of virtue.
    Who gets to decide what is decadence? Or virtue, for that matter. There's the rub.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by JaneV2.0 View Post
    Who gets to decide what is decadence? Or virtue, for that matter. There's the rub.
    Ultimately, I would expect a sort of evolutionary process to be applicable, with the more decadent societies being less competitive than the more self-disciplined.

  7. #27
    Senior Member JaneV2.0's Avatar
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    Like the liberal (decadent?) countries of northwestern Europe? If we had free borders and could vote with our feet, it might be an interesting experiment. A little discipline, whether imposed from within or without, goes a long way with me, so I'd go for the vibrant, messy, creative country, wherever that was.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by JaneV2.0 View Post
    Like the liberal (decadent?) countries of northwestern Europe? If we had free borders and could vote with our feet, it might be an interesting experiment. A little discipline, whether imposed from within or without, goes a long way with me, so I'd go for the vibrant, messy, creative country, wherever that was.
    The long term risk there might be the need to rebuild more of a culture of martial discipline should their barbarous ally withdraw its protection.

  9. #29
    Senior Member Teacher Terry's Avatar
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    Instead of putting people in prison who use drugs I would like to see the money for for treatment. A good friend of mine with very bad MS gets relief from marijuana.

  10. #30
    Senior Member JaneV2.0's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LDAHL View Post
    The long term risk there might be the need to rebuild more of a culture of martial discipline should their barbarous ally withdraw its protection.
    Or maybe the need for massive layers of "protection" is just a marketing ploy.

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