The California Fires..........

[catherine]

Hi Jane. When does it all stop? When our sea-to-shining-sea is like Hong Kong? A lot of my feeling is coming from living out in the country in the midwest, where very close by, small towns have turned into cities. I don't think we have to always live like that.......constantly consuming every inch of land with homes and businesses. And that's not even addressing the state of our education in this country.. And all the poor people we already have. And what about the resources?

We have to think of the health and welfare of those already here before constantly letting in millions of others. And they can be any race from anywhere on this planet. I still think we need to protect those already here.........and appreciate that we can't fill up every inch of land everywhere with people.

It's interesting, because both my DH and my BIL have been under earners for years (not so much DH, but he has been seeking a "retirement job"). But tell them that QuickChek is accepting applications and they look at me like I've slapped them in the face.

With the population going the way it is, small towns are going to turn into cities. You know I agree with you that this does not bode well for the environment--I grow more and more disheartened by the many ways in which we plunder the earth.. but that's truly not the immigrants' fault. I recall a really good motivational book I read by a college basketball team recruiter who said he was always seeking PhDs. (Poor, hungry and Driven). We are no longer PhDs by his definition. But a ton of Mexicans are.

[JaneV2.0]

Illegal immigration has dropped precipitously in the last ten years (Forbes), and legal immigration has been stable. The same article suggests the solution (one I've long proposed) is to increase work availability: "Building a wall while neglecting to add new ways for individuals to work legally at lower-skilled jobs would continue the status quo. It is neither a smart, nor a new approach, to reducing illegal immigration."

Of course more people are moving to cities--that's where the (few) jobs are--but the population has been declining, and will continue to do so. The idea that the Midwest is going to look like Hong Kong is ridiculous, unless people are lured from elsewhere in the country by housing bargains.

If you want an old, tired, stagnant country, just clamp down hard on immigration and let other countries benefit from our shortsightedness.

[ApatheticNoMore]

It's interesting, because both my DH and my BIL have been under earners for years (not so much DH, but he has been seeking a "retirement job"). But tell them that QuickChek is accepting applications and they look at me like I've slapped them in the face.

probably the only reason they would be able to support themselves on QuickChek is that you pay a lot of their bills. And we wonder why everyone isn't rushing to sign up for a life of dependency on others but actually want a job that allows them to support themselves. Yes fast food does have help wanted signs. Everything else, I mean $15 an hour office jobs even not to mention anything actually good, the competition seems fierce, meanwhile you can't live on a fast food paycheck.

[Teacher Terry]

People die all the time and our birth rate is low. We need replacements that will do low unskilled work. Tons of empty space in many states. There is no reason we can’t take in more refugees. Some places like Kansas are extremely cheap to live and rent is low. I know someone in Wichita makes 9/hour and has a nice apartment for 400 month. Doesn’t own a car. He is doing fine.

[JaneV2.0]

People die all the time and our birth rate is low. We need replacements that will do low unskilled work. Tons of empty space in many states. There is no reason we can’t take in more refugees. Some places like Kansas are extremely cheap to live and rent is low. I know someone in Wichita makes 9/hour and has a nice apartment for 400 month. Doesn’t own a car. He is doing fine.

This seems so glaringly obvious to me that I can't see why people insist on arguing about it. And those immigrants taking the odious and back-breaking jobs that no one else wants will pay taxes and raise children that--if history is any guide--will go on to be better educated than their parents and may even start a Fortune 500 company. https://www.brookings.edu/blog/the-a...heir-children/

From the intro to the article: Economists disagree about a lot of things, but two areas—the importance of entrepreneurship to economic growth and job creation, and the outsized role that immigrants play in founding American companies—have reached broad consensus. And yet, immigration policy remains stalled at a time when the rate of business formation is near four decade lows—presenting a major disconnect between economic and political realities.

[jp1]

Now that the president has come up with a solution to the wildfires it seems like we should be welcoming the caravan with open arms. And a giant truck full of rakes...

[CathyA]

People die all the time and our birth rate is low. We need replacements that will do low unskilled work. Tons of empty space in many states. There is no reason we can’t take in more refugees. Some places like Kansas are extremely cheap to live and rent is low. I know someone in Wichita makes 9/hour and has a nice apartment for 400 month. Doesn’t own a car. He is doing fine.

"Tons of empty space" ....What's wrong with empty space? What's wrong with leaving some of this country to nature and other species? Why do we have to fill it with people and commerce?
I'm sort of surprised to be hearing from some of you about the importance of keeping up our population so that commerce can keep growing? That concept seems to go against simple living. I know it does for me.

I wonder if some of you who talk about all the space we have, already live in the city or suburbs and aren't aware of the unbelievable (essentially out-of-control) growth that is happening all over this country?

[ApatheticNoMore]

So my bf goes to city meetings and advocates for more housing. I have some skepticism, and it's one others voice there, that more housing will just lead to more people moving here (which of course is a problem as most manmade resources are stretched to the breaking point as well - roads, schools etc. - already not enough). Plus I think housing development needs to be limited first with strict rules like absolutely no developing natural areas that aren't developed. Don't build in the foothills where there is forest fire risk as well, but I don't think anyone much advocates that, they just don't stand up the developers and ban it. But it seems there isn't enough housing for everyone at present so, and if you don't develop you go with density. But I wonder if even density works after a certain point, probably best would be medium density and elimination of single family housing, but that's purely utopian and not likely to happen.

And yes saying we need population growth is crazy. It's people who only have one or two kids (if they have kids) that are doing the responsible thing of course.

[CathyA]

So my bf goes to city meetings and advocates for more housing. I have some skepticism, and it's one others voice there, that more housing will just lead to more people moving here (which of course is a problem as most manmade resources are stretched to the breaking point as well - roads, schools etc. - already not enough). Plus I think housing development needs to be limited first with strict rules like absolutely no developing natural areas that aren't developed. Don't build in the foothills where there is forest fire risk as well, but I don't think anyone much advocates that, they just don't stand up the developers and ban it. But it seems there isn't enough housing for everyone at present so, and if you don't develop you go with density. But I wonder if even density works after a certain point, probably best would be medium density and elimination of single family housing, but that's purely utopian and not likely to happen.

And yes saying we need population growth is crazy. It's people who only have one or two kids (if they have kids) that are doing the responsible thing of course.

I agree ApatheticNoMore! But time and time again, it seems that the money-makers create a need and then everything happens for their pockets. Let's face it.......we're a spoiled nation, used to having everything all the time. It's rare when more than a handful of citizens stand up to development, which never seems to be enough to stop it.

I have to say, about 8 years ago, out here in the rural area, a company wanted to build a "back-up grid" of some sort, in case the main whatever was taken out (by terrorists, etc.). They had a discussion with the people in our area, and I was proud of us. It didn't happen. It would have made the area more of a target, plus ruin the night sky, etc. But that's the only time I can ever think of where our voices mattered, over some company feeding us a line of B.S. how how good it would be for us. It has to start with citizens not being spoiled and short-sighted.

I know this has gotten off topic from the California fires and immigration.......but our nation is a fabric and there are so many different threads to consider, since each thread contributes to the quality and stability of the whole fabric.

[jp1]

Personally i live in a part of the country where a lot of people don’t seem to understand supply and demand, at least as it relates to housing. A lot of people, both wealthy and not wealthy, seem to think that the high cost of housing isn’t tied to the fact that we have had far more people move to the area in the last several decades than the amount of housing that has been built. To be fair, i suppose a lot of that lack of basic knowledge is people not wanting change.