Slavery in the US

[Yppej]

I was surprised today to read the Thirteenth Amendment which allows slavery for prisoners. From what I have heard Trump's proposed criminal justice reform bill does not tackle this issue and both government and private corporations in some states pay slave wages of pennies per dollar to prisoners.

Massachusetts does pay regular wages to inmates on work release. Funds go first to child support to minimize the state having to pick up the tab in welfare payments to raise their kids, then most of the balance goes into an account the prisoner gets upon release to get back on his or her feet. There may be deductions for transportation to or from the job site, something like $10 per day. One man got out with enough to buy himself a vehicle so he could get to and from work. This is the way I think prison labor should work.

[Ultralight]

Most Americans probably support turning prisoners into all-out slaves. I think most would support using them in medical experiments too. And I think a majority, or close to it, would gleefully watch executions on TV or live in person.

[dado potato]

North Carolina Department of Public Safety expresses pride in their programs to "put inmates to work, teach valuable skills, and save money for the state".

http://ncdps.gov/About-DPS/Sections/...uction-Program

Federal Prison Industries "Unicor" has a waiting list of federal inmates who would like to work for them, because they pay approximately 90 cents an hour, versus the rate of 12-40 cents that is paid for prison jobs in the laundry, kitchen, buildings and grounds.


As wildfires rage in the west, I understand that the firefighters include crews of inmates.

[iris lilies]

Once I got a job application from someone who had mark in the box of previous salary “$.10 an hour”. That clued me in that he spent time in the penitentiary.

[Tybee]

My heart goes out to those who have to put 10 cents an hour in their previous salary. I hope he was able to find work.

[iris lilies]

I was surprised today to read the Thirteenth Amendment which allows slavery for prisoners. From what I have heard Trump's proposed criminal justice reform bill does not tackle this issue and both government and private corporations in some states pay slave wages of pennies per dollar to prisoners.

Massachusetts does pay regular wages to inmates on work release. Funds go first to child support to minimize the state having to pick up the tab in welfare payments to raise their kids, then most of the balance goes into an account the prisoner gets upon release to get back on his or her feet. There may be deductions for transportation to or from the job site, something like $10 per day. One man got out with enough to buy himself a vehicle so he could get to and from work. This is the way I think prison labor should work.

Slavery isnt, of course, defined by an hourly rate for wages. But you know that.

[Zoe Girl]

I think the point of slavery is that they do not get choices or anywhere near a wage that will help them transition to outside employment. I would go bonkers without something to do so I would love a job if I were in that situation, however it must really stink to get 10 cents an hour. The firefighters who are prisoners deserve so much credit. I would be scared to death, I hope that we treat them well.

For me when you lose civil liberties I think you should still have what choices you can. You lose choices because you were unsafe and caused harm, and the consequences relate to that. Not necessarily a reason to become slave labor.

[JaneV2.0]

Angola prison in Louisiana is one of the worst offenders; I've seen it described as "basically a plantation." Disgusting.

[ApatheticNoMore]

They should be paid minimum wage of course. If early release depends on doing the work it is slavery outright, being held against one's will or work, I don't know how you could call that anything else.

Whether it is strictly slavery otherwise seems like a needle on a pin discussion as in I hardly think it's the main issue (but that is correct about the constitution allowing it, that is a legal aspect - I don't know to what extent it or other loopholes are being used as the legal cover), as I get where this thread is actually going: the use of prison labor in this country is shocking.

And it's not all work like do some useful stuff around the prison which I think you could make a case for, or even making license plates (which you really couldn't but ...). I don't have figures but that seems to be a very small amount of what prison labor consists of and to look at it that way is probably very misleading. It should instead be looked at as a profit center for corporations and a source of cheap labor.

EVERY and I do mean pretty much EVERY large corporation uses prison labor as do some governments (as I've tried to find out who uses it so I wouldn't buy from them, and wow it was like everyone, and I realized such a boycott might be impossible to carry out, may as well boycott air almost). It is a profit center period and just about every large corporation in America is using it.

They use them for call centers (next time you are thrilled to pieces to actually get someone who speaks English on the phone ... could be, of course also could not be as I never said ALL call centers are prisoners). They are used for manufacturing (next time you buy a product "made in the USA" it might be made in the U.S. by prisoners (actually I do prefer the label as conditions elsewhere are often terrible too and it's not necessarily prison labor, but I know it's hard to tell ... I wish there was a label "prison free").

It is telling than in all Trumps talk about immigrants taking jobs which is true to some extent, or jobs being outsourced which is true to a huge extent, there is no talk about prisoners taking jobs that would otherwise be available - but it's the truth (I don't know if it would still be used but prison labor would not be so appealing if it wasn't super cheap labor). It shows how consistent he isn't. Once upon a time in the labor movement there used to be opposition to prison labor. Not now (except the I.W.W.).

[iris lilies]

A status of “slave “ meant you were chattell, property. Not that you lacked in choices (which of course You did!) or that your pay was pennies on the dollar ( what pay?).

Have a discussion about prison labor if you like, but using the word Slave about it is silly and I liken it to the over used word “nazi” and other words used in hyperbolic ways. This use lessens the real experience of slavery and Nazi regimes.

When our friend went to the penitentiary for killing his wife, he mused alloud at his “going off to prison party” that he hoped he would be assigned a job because he doesn’t like sitting still.