Homeless at the library

[Teacher Terry]

I think we should legalize drugs and then use the money for treatment instead of jail.

[Chicken lady]

It keeps them from using the drugs in the bathroom - which was a problem the op wanted solved.

also, I am all for treatment instead of incarceration.

[iris lilies]

It keeps them from using the drugs in the bathroom - which was a problem the op wanted solved.

also, I am all for treatment instead of incarceration.

continuing to play, I will ask: what is “it” that keeps a library patron from using drugs in the libray’s bathroom? Do you mean cops will arrest the person with drugs? If Not, then what?

[Chicken lady]

Yes, I imagine if an officer finds you are carrying illegal drugs, you will be arrested and removed from the library. Therefore, you will not be using those drugs in the bathroom. If this happens frequently, it should act as a deterrent to bringing drugs into the library. For those who feel a need to have these drugs and are unable to stash them somewhere else, this will no doubt result in decreased use of the library rather than decreased use of drugs. One can argue as to wether or not that is a desirable outcome. One can also argue as to wether or not increased drug arrests are socially beneficial. Those are seperate issues with different solutions. I am simply proposing a use of resources that is in line with the rules of society we currently have and reduces a problem stated in the original post. Do you have some other, better suggestion for keeping homeless people from using illegal drugs in the library bathroom? Something more realistic than “legalize all drugs and find everyone housing.”?

i didn’t realize that we were “playing.” You seem to have clearly understood my statements, but you don’t argue against them or offer alternatives. You just keep asking me to clarify fairly obvious information. So in anticipation of your next question, yes, when the cops “remove you from the library” your new location will be jail.

My brother once once had a crisis at work, and when he met with his team to tell them what they were going to do, one of the guys raised his hand and said “that’s a bad plan.” And my brother replied. “Yes. It’s a terrible plan. It sucks. But it beats no plan. Does anyone have a good plan? Or even a better plan?” And there was silence. At which point my brother said “right. So we go with the bad plan.”

[sweetana3]

Our library building hosts weddings and other events during nonpublic times. In fact, it is quite popular in the summer.

It is important to the safety of the cleaning personnel and others, that used needles are not found stashed in trash cans, laying out in the open, or otherwise a danger to others.

Our library has a very clear list of rules and behaviors for anyone using the facilities. Drugs are a small part of the overall issues created by disruptive patrons. http://www.indypl.org/using/behavior/

[Chicken lady]

Wait, maybe I see the problem.

maybe IL is confused because she thinks I am insisting she needs to have law enforcement in her library where drugs are not causing a problem?

that would be silly. That would be like me suggesting vegetable dishes for her to eat because UL complained about the lack of nutrition in his diet.

[jp1]

I imagine the ACLU would be all over it if the police started trampling people’s 4th amendment rights by bringing in drug dogs to randomly search library patrons.

[iris lilies]

I imagine the ACLU would be all over it if the police started trampling people’s 4th amendment rights by bringing in drug dogs to randomly search library patrons.

I didnt even bring that up, but yes. Absolutely. That was part of the “hue and cry” I mentioned. The ACLU and the media would be all over this, and rightly so.

A proposal to have regular patrols of drug sniffing dogs in the public library is preposterous. And it is WRONG.

I raised several arguements against this as well as proposing a solution, but to clearly restate those ideas:

* Drug use takes place in and around the library, so the bathrooms are not the only problem area in the thousands if sq feet of central library
* unacceptable behaviors other than drug use take place in the library
* many patrons carry drugs and weapons into the library and do not cause a problem, but both are against the law

solution:

* Having library staff, both service staff and security staff, watchful of trouble spots and potential patrons who may cause trouble, is an effective deterrant.
* known repeaters of problematic behavior of any kind —not just drug use—lose library priveleges

And to other points raised, Library janitorial staff are trained about sharps disposal and handling. I dont know how many needles are found in our bathrooms. It does happen, and my guess is that it has increased since I retired because heroin use has increased. But OTOH the men’s shelter across the street closd, and behavior problems have dropped 50% so that is a huge increase in quality of experience for library patrons.

[Chicken lady]

*i disagree that it is wrong for public safety officers to enforce laws in public spaces.
*I did not suggest confining them to the bathroom - walking casually throughout the space - as current officers do in several of my public library branches - seems workable.
* my suggestion was not intended to solve every unacceptable library behavior, but I am also ok with confiscating illegal weapons. TSA took my kid’s pocket knife. He was warned. Nobody made him sign up for the trip he was on.
* if library staff were a sufficient deterrent, the problems would not exist. Which is why I suggested social workers and public safety officers to address social issues and public safety concerns. Then library staff can focus on library specific issues.
i notice you did not have a problem with social workers...

also, a human police officer cannot randomly search people, but it is my understanding that, a “hit” from a canine officer constitutes probably cause. Which is why you need to warn patrons that the premises are patrolled.

[iris lilies]

*i disagree that it is wrong for public safety officers to enforce laws in public spaces.
*I did not suggest confining them to the bathroom - walking casually throughout the space - as current officers do in several of my public library branches - seems workable.
* my suggestion was not intended to solve every unacceptable library behavior, but I am also ok with confiscating illegal weapons. TSA took my kid’s pocket knife. He was warned. Nobody made him sign up for the trip he was on.
* if library staff were a sufficient deterrent, the problems would not exist. Which is why I suggested social workers and public safety officers to address social issues and public safety concerns. Then library staff can focus on library specific issues.
i notice you did not have a problem with social workers...

also, a human police officer cannot randomly search people, but it is my understanding that, a “hit” from a canine officer constitutes probably cause. Which is why you need to warn patrons that the premises are patrolled.

I understand that in your preferred scenario, police patrol the entire library realm with drug sniffing dogs. That is a huge part of my objection—patrons who are causing no problems will be targeted and removed and possibly jailed (but jailing is unlikely in our city.) This is the core of my objection.

Because I have been unable to convince you how WRONG it is to treat well behaved library patrons in this way, I will just have to give up. Please do not become a Library Director who determines policy like this. jp1 and some others here may, however, become library directors.