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Thread: The government shutdown.....

  1. #121
    Senior Member JaneV2.0's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jp1 View Post
    There's no point in negotiating with a guy who doesn't honor his word.

    And frankly, I don't care if that stupid wall was free, I don't want a gigantic monument to racism on the southern border of my country.
    Amen.

  2. #122
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    There's no point in negotiating with a guy who doesn't honor his word.
    is it about his word or about passing a government spending bill that has various spending priorities in it that either gets signed by the president or doesn't (actually with 2/3s majority do they EVEN need his signature, ok not clear on that one, generally no, but maybe there are exceptions. And no neither party has 2/3s, they would have to cooperate - but this is where the narrative of it all being Trump completely falls apart no? It's about the parties being so polarized they can't pass a spending bill.). So I could be wrong but isn't that how things actually work and not some fictional "trusting his word" as if it was a sweet nothing whispered in Melania's ears not to cheat on her.

    And frankly, I don't care if that stupid wall was free, I don't want a gigantic monument to racism on the southern border of my country.
    there are barriers there already, probably better thought out for sure but ... I wish Trump would just compromise and be ok with more government scanners and maybe more border patrol agents, other more likely to work border security measures than his wall, and it could be resolved that way, like ok we'll put money into border security but lets get more inputs from the agencies actually involved. But there really is no compromises on either side. So porkbarelling is a compromise I think could be tried and yet isn't being. Because I actually take it for granted Trump isn't a rational actor, but there needs to fire under those who are (R's and D's in congress) to get this government open again anyway instead of playing it for political points.

    And the only one's suffering are government workers or those actually losing benefits (not many yet): strike or burn the damn place down is all I have to say to the government workers. Be as lazy as you want to and don't try to fight it being you are only working for the fun of it and work isn't likely that fun, give people refunds they don't deserve, work to rule, slow down, speed up and mess it all up because you are pawns so a bunch of assholes can pander to their deeply propagandized bases and win brownie points (which are supposed to compromise for all the real things we can't get out of our government - like you know decent paying jobs or a decent healthcare system etc.). And apparently slavery is legal in the U.S. and not just for prisoners.
    Last edited by ApatheticNoMore; 1-19-19 at 2:38pm.
    If you want something to get done, ask a busy person. If you want them to have a nervous breakdown that is.

  3. #123
    Senior Member jp1's Avatar
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    Trump had agreed to sign a continuing resolution in december. So the senate passed it and the house was going to pass it. Then ann coulter and rush limbaugh called him a weakling and he changed his mind . He doesnt keep his word.

  4. #124
    Senior Member JaneV2.0's Avatar
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    This could obviously be over today if Congress would just vote overwhelmingly to fund the government with a veto-proof majority. What's stopping them? (Rhetorical question)

  5. #125
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    He is speaking at 3 eastern time today.

  6. #126
    Senior Member bae's Avatar
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    Well, this frees up some more of my time.

    "Commissioner of Public Lands Hilary Franz

    The federal government shutdown continues to negatively impact our wildfire preparation. The Pacific Northwest Wildfire Coordinating Group has canceled a crucial 700-person interagency training in Yakima. The team who plans the training are primarily federal employees who are furloughed. This training will not be able to be rescheduled.

    If our federal, state, and local firefighters are to effectively work together on the firelines, they must train together. This is a huge cost to Washington. The federal government needs to reopen now."

  7. #127
    Senior Member Rogar's Avatar
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    I don't know if the media is capitalizing on just a few examples, but there seems to be a painful lesson that there are a lot of people living pay check to pay check. People going to food banks and unable to make mortgage payments. One figure tossed out was that the media federal worker pay was around $65,000 per year.

    The eminent Wilbert Ross says that federal workers can get a government secured low interest loan and are guaranteed back pay for lost wages. I wonder how long that loan approval process would take. The people who will come out on the worst end on things are those who are not fed workers but depend on the government agencies being open for income.

    The risk of environmental damage is priceless.

  8. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rogar View Post
    I don't know if the media is capitalizing on just a few examples, but there seems to be a painful lesson that there are a lot of people living pay check to pay check. People going to food banks and unable to make mortgage payments.
    it almost seems people living in a world that doesn't even exist. Like it's almost like hearing 2/3 the population can't read "See spot run" or something. Because if it is really true that they can collect unemployment (and it is but I don't know if that applies to those going to work or just those sitting at home etc.), there is no world anywhere where a person can expect not to have periods without a job. If that's the world federal workers were living in, none of the rest of us can relate.

    One can *hope* any periods of unemployment are brief periods. And one can hope one always qualifies for unemployment when it happens (a somewhat risky assumption but ... ). In my two decades in the work force, I've been unemployed 3 times so far, this is facing the situation those workers face, having to live on unemployment. The media can capitalize on it, but that is the situation EVERYONE who loses a job faces and almost everyone WILL lose a job at some point in their life. So it's really a universal experience (only unlike they unemployed they will with certainty get their jobs back someday). It's not actually possible to live off unemployment entirely generally, I had savings as did my bf when he lost his job and he's far from rich (one time I didn't even qualify for unemployment, fine that time I quit an impossible situation - and this was when we were in the Great Recession as well, was I scared, oh my). So maybe for those sitting at home it's like a less nerve wracking unemployment, but for those working without pay, I think I might not be even able to make myself work at all, pay is the only reason for working, and if it's not there and on a regular Skinner reinforcement schedule too ...

    One figure tossed out was that the media federal worker pay was around $65,000 per year.
    but that's pretty good money, no, depending? Most people should be able to live on and save money on that income (and btw that is higher than the median pay almost anywhere as a whole). *Household* (not individual) income almost everywhere (even where cost of living is not so cheap) is lower than that. Fine it's the median so not everyone earns it, some are earning 30k, ok that's hard (or at least it would be crazy hard to live on 30k *here*, but maybe work somewhere real cheap).
    If you want something to get done, ask a busy person. If you want them to have a nervous breakdown that is.

  9. #129
    Williamsmith
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    Of course, the partial government shutdown has consequences as Bae can attest to. Another of them being that it is actually going to cost the taxpayers money. Because we are going to pay people for not coming to work.

    How about we get as concerned about the government actually working and borrowing a trillion dollars a year to function. That should concern everyone enough to stop the spending spree. All these endangered workers that have been declared unessential. Maybe we should look at why we are paying people to do unessential jobs?

    In a real world where sticking to your budget means survival or financial ruin....there are no unessential employees because we realize it’s unsustainable.

  10. #130
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    In a real world where sticking to your budget means survival or financial ruin....there are no unessential employees because we realize it’s unsustainable.
    I'm not sure where this real world exists, hiring one's personal assistant? I find most people who think corporate America is so well run, have usually spent very little time in corporate America, because enough experience will disabuse most people of that notion. And I mean in terms of optimizing profits. But you know it's kind of ok, it's not great but way more people probably need money to live than there are really useful things to be done.

    But no IRS agents for example are not actually unessential.
    If you want something to get done, ask a busy person. If you want them to have a nervous breakdown that is.

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