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Thread: 2020 Presidential Candidates

  1. #411
    Senior Member iris lilies's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jp1 View Post
    Yes, I think he made a mistake.

    https://chalkbeat.org/posts/us/2019/...work-research/

    Personally I think the entire rote learning of facts and then testing the memorization of them system of education is horrible. Sure, it can be, ummmm, tested to see if it works. But it's also a great way to turn kids off of school and learning at an early age. There are much better ways to learn things.
    I wont defend or repudiate the Common Core program itself, but generally it seems to be an excellent example of:

    1) social engineering by Nanny G. that didnt go as planned or that had unforeseen consequences

    2) social engineering that can’t even be measured in any kind of rational way so that all of us can see its clear success or failure (see opposing viewpoints and studies that show success, as reported in this article)

    3) social engineering that we are now stuck with, apparently no backing out, although bandaids and superficial fixes will be applied to further the chaos until a dozen years from now the entire program will be tossed out and re-invented by another wannabe-fixer of human kind

    A coupla engineers over on the MMM site a few years ago talked about the math concepts of Common Core. They liked ‘em and saw utility in those educational concepts and methods. But they were engineers, so there ya go.

  2. #412
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    Ivanka, probably has influence with her dad. Good point that she is not elected yet finds herself at meetings, etc that she shouldn’t be a part of. Rote memorization isn’t what I consider learning.

  3. #413
    Senior Member jp1's Avatar
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    How exactly do you define ‘social engineering’? I didnt see common core as some nefarious plan, just as an extension of the stupid idea that all educational plans need to be structured in a way that their efficacy can be tested by forcing students to take excessive tests rather than structured in a way that actually helps students to learn.

    And now that that efficacy of common core is in doubt we can indeed get rid of it. We just have to make the decision to do so. But with a secretary of education who hates public schools and loves testing companies and a president who doesnt give two shits about anything that doesnt help him make money it isnt likely that anything will happen in the near future.

  4. #414
    Senior Member iris lilies's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jp1 View Post
    How exactly do you define ‘social engineering’? I didnt see common core as some nefarious plan, just as an extension of the stupid idea that all educational plans need to be structured in a way that their efficacy can be tested by forcing students to take excessive tests rather than structured in a way that actually helps students to learn.

    And now that that efficacy of common core is in doubt we can indeed get rid of it. We just have to make the decision to do so. But with a secretary of education who hates public schools and loves testing companies and a president who doesnt give two shits about anything that doesnt help him make money it isnt likely that anything will happen in the near future.
    i define social engineering as government policy or practice put into place to drive human behavior.

    In the big picture any government policy of public education is social engineering because it intends to create informed and capable citizens.

    Common Core concepts are not directly tied to testing, and standardized testing has always been a thing (4th grade and 8th grade tests being the big ones in my state for decades, long before the Common Core program.)

    If you mean that Common Core hs increased the emphasis on standardized test, it may well have.I dont know enough about real world classrooms to comment beyond there certainly was a lot of noise about the testing and lots of unhappiness from educators back in the day of new CC about the testing.

    Is there a federal carrot on a stick to drive testing? I dont know but remember much gnashing of teeth about projected outcomes with schools thatbdo not measure up.

    What has been the real fallout of schools that do not test out?

  5. #415
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    Second hand opinion from my son who has a math education degree:

    1. Common core teaches kids what they need to know in a systematic way.

    2. The huge emphasis on standardized testing forces teachers to teach to the test rather than follow the natural thread of creative activities that the class is ready for as the year unfolds.

    It’s two different problems/issues, although intertwined, and is complicated by the fact that any one teacher struggles to make the material accessible to 25-30 students at the same time.

    This is the problem with education for the masses. It’s not individualized. Kids who are not in the middle of the bell curve will struggle.

  6. #416
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    Any minds changed or positions solidified by the first round of debates? I saw a number of different approaches. The angry progressive guy. The “unifier” who will obviously keep an eye open for backs needing to be stabbed. The sharp elbowed interrupting to demand moral authority. The childish pretense of acting like the only adult in the room. The speaking in tongues. I wasn’t aware it was the President’s job to put food on the table. I’d like a chili dog with cheese fries please.

    The “raise your hand” questions like the one about outlawing private health insurance reminded me of middle school. The time allocation seemed faulty. Did I blink and miss Andrew Yang? I think some of the moderators got more words in than the candidates. What’s Chuck Todd running for anyway?

    I didn’t come out at the end knowing any more about the candidates than I did before. I wonder who the Libertarians will nominate?

  7. #417
    Senior Member bae's Avatar
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    I'm concerned that Trump will get reelected after seeing this debate circus unfold.

  8. #418
    Senior Member catherine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bae View Post
    I'm concerned that Trump will get reelected after seeing this debate circus unfold.
    Agreed. I really don't want to agree with Trump that the debates were "boring"--because I don't like his way of livening up the action, but I didn't see any stand-outs that have a chance of overcoming his showmanship. I do like the women though--Kamala Harris, Amy Klobuchar especially. I'm a huge Bernie fan, but I think he's Moses--bringing us to the edge of a Progressive Promised Land but not being able to gain entrance himself. I think his window of opportunity has expired, sad to say.
    "Do any human beings ever realize life while they live it--every, every minute?" Emily Webb, Our Town
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  9. #419
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    Yes. I try not to be ageist. But honestly - Biden and Bernie both seemed to struggle to either find the right words or follow the logic of the questions. They just repeated the same canned answers. And their thinking seemed a little slow - they are showing their age.

    I’m not terribly drawn to any of them, but I’ll take anyone who is not Trump at this point.

  10. #420
    Senior Member jp1's Avatar
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    Did i watch the same debates? Sure, the nutjobs like williamson were nutty, but the serious candidates did just fine.

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