2020 Presidential Candidates

[Alan]

Ok, I'll revise since I like to have things accurate. Alan believes and approves of the fossil fuel industry's bizarre ad campaign a few years ago. "Carbon dioxide. The breath of life." He's probably also super stoked that farmers in brazil are burning down the amazon at an, ahem, breathtaking rate, since it will mean more carbon dioxide to keep his part of the world warm.*

*If things don't work out for you and we actually elect people who implement policies to slow human caused climate change I will send you one of the two wool sweaters I bought in Dublin 18 years ago. They are awesome. I get compliments every time I wear them. And I wouldn't want you to be chilly.

Boy Alan sounds like an asshole, no way you should give your awesome sweater to that dude.

[LDAHL]

Boy Alan sounds like an asshole, no way you should give your awesome sweater to that dude.

Maybe if the sweater was stuffed with straw it could be propped up as a suitable debate opponent.

[Teacher Terry]

You guys crack me up!!

[iris lilies]

You guys crack me up!!

They are a humorous lot, to be sure.

[frugal-one]

Obviously, you're wrong. I believe the climate has been in a continual state of flux since the formation of earth's atmosphere and will continue to be so forever more as the dominant causes are well outside the control of mere mortals. I also believe in Global Warming, which I believe to be one of the states of flux within climate change and may be subject to conditions necessary for the further evolution or devolution of humans. Maybe you and I could discuss both subjects rationally one day, without accusations or political blame. Are you interested?

I guess what we disagree upon then is that "mere humans" can have an effect and slow down climate change. As stated earlier, why not err on the side of caution? Deregulation of laws that help the environment in favor of big business is not erring on the side of caution!

[Alan]

I guess what we disagree upon then is that "mere humans" can have an effect and slow down climate change.

I'm not sure what we can do to counteract sunspots, the earth's orbit or the earth's faint wobble, not to mention the effect of volcanoes and asteroid strikes which all contribute to climate change. Now humans almost certainly do have an effect on global warming which has nothing to do with climate, although I'm not sure what effect dropping out of the Paris Agreement or approving the Keystone Pipeline has had on that phenomenon.

[frugal-one]

I'm not sure what we can do to counteract sunspots, the earth's orbit or the earth's faint wobble, not to mention the effect of volcanoes and asteroid strikes which all contribute to climate change. Now humans almost certainly do have an effect on global warming which has nothing to do with climate, although I'm not sure what effect dropping out of the Paris Agreement or approving the Keystone Pipeline has had on that phenomenon.

I do not profess to be an expert or even remotely up to date on the scientific data but think we should listen to the scientists. Now, it is just do what we can for big business ... to hell with the environment.

RE: Keystone Pipeline.... deals with leaks of petroleum.... again in favor of big business rather than the environment.
Paris agreement to help the environment in reducing greenhouse gases... isn't that a good thing?

[Alan]

RE: Keystone Pipeline.... deals with leaks of petroleum.... again in favor of big business rather than the environment.
Paris agreement to help the environment in reducing greenhouse gases... isn't that a good thing?

Your Keystone comment reminds me of the rationale behind the state of New York banning additional natural gas pipelines in the state. Now there's not enough capacity to provide natural gas to new construction. Whoops

On the Paris thing, I don't think we've reneged on any of the environmental agreements in place but suspect we won't be contributing to the $100B per year in payments to undeveloped countries the agreement required between 2020 and 2025.

[bae]

On the Paris thing, I don't think we've reneged on any of the environmental agreements in place but suspect we won't be contributing to the $100B per year in payments to undeveloped countries the agreement required between 2020 and 2025.

I always found that concept odd - "here's a bunch of money, you undeveloped scum, smile and continue living in the mud".

[ApatheticNoMore]

Pay them more than they can earn by destroying the amazon to keep the forest, as the reality is the amazon is worth more (from any *real* evaluation of worth, which our economics captures very poorly - we're going to GDP ourselves to extinction) as is than whatever can be developed on it. Currently the destruction of vast stores of natural capital, selling off one's natural capital, is counted as a gain. It's not one.

I was at a protest against the destruction of the Amazon. One day off from jobs and that's what I do - without illusions. As for things we don't need: I don't need a vacation (days off yes, mostly for personal utterly non-political matters). I do need a livable planet.