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Thread: 2020 Presidential Candidates

  1. #91
    Williamsmith
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tammy View Post
    To side comment on the no abortion/care for the children idea:

    An overarching prolife ethic would care about the quality of people’s lives once they are out of the womb also.

    I would define prolife this way:

    No abortion
    No war
    No capital punishment
    Healthcare for all
    universal basic income
    As long as we have a Democratic Party which celebrates the ease with which a life can be terminated....none of the other profile participants above will be possible. This kind of policy hurts the very classes that it alledges to help. The black community is a fraction of its potential because abortion has been accepted as the best means for improving one’s own life....by eliminating another life. It has reduced the influence of the black community by approximately 15 million since the 70s.

  2. #92
    Senior Member catherine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tammy View Post
    To side comment on the no abortion/care for the children idea:

    An overarching prolife ethic would care about the quality of people’s lives once they are out of the womb also.

    I would define prolife this way:

    No abortion
    No war
    No capital punishment
    Healthcare for all
    universal basic income
    I agree.

    WS, whatever one's reason for being pro-life may be, the "strength in numbers" argument for supporting minority communities by forcing them to have children they don't want and don't have means to care for makes no sense to me.
    "Do any human beings ever realize life while they live it--every, every minute?" Emily Webb, Our Town
    www.silententry.wordpress.com

  3. #93
    Williamsmith
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    Quote Originally Posted by catherine View Post
    I agree.

    WS, whatever one's reason for being pro-life may be, the "strength in numbers" argument for supporting minority communities by forcing them to have children they don't want and don't have means to care for makes no sense to me.
    There is a difference between permitting it, condoning it and facilitating it. You and I have a fundamental difference of opinion as to what our country has adopted as its characterization of the abortion solution. I say it has resulted in nothing less than genocide of millions in the name of marginalizing an entire race because they are “poor” or “disadvantages” or “means deprived”. Using abortion of otherwise potential created beings as a treatment or cure for a societal deficiency is abhorrent to me. Let them chose but do not apply fertilizer to weeds.

  4. #94
    Senior Member catherine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Williamsmith View Post
    Using abortion of otherwise potential created beings as a treatment or cure for a societal deficiency is abhorrent to me. Let them chose but do not apply fertilizer to weeds.
    How can you freely choose something if it's illegal? And I'm not a total pragmatist when it comes to abortion--like you, I fervently believe in hope and the potential of all human beings--a belief I lived out by choosing to bring an unexpected child into the world when even my mother told me not to because of the circumstances I was in at the time. So I get what you're saying. But that was a personal choice and I am glad I didn't have the government as a barrier. [For the record, I am vehemently opposed to late-term abortion.]

    But the right-wing "sanctity of life" platform, as Tammy suggests, is very inconsistent and hypocritical to say the least.
    "Do any human beings ever realize life while they live it--every, every minute?" Emily Webb, Our Town
    www.silententry.wordpress.com

  5. #95
    Williamsmith
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    Well, Catherine, we have had the benefit of statistical analysis of the “program” since its inception in the 70s and it is patently obvious who has suffered most from the elimination of unwanted people. It has been the poor..and especially the black community. Had Hitler just been patient, he could have eliminated the Jews by simply placing them into poverty and providing an easy means for them to get rid of their own. Democrats love to establish classes of people that have no ability for upward mobility and then they feel good about marginalizing them to the point where their vote doesn’t matter.

    Your tolerance of an abortion based simply on its unwanted status and its unexpectedness is surprising given your personal convictions of life’s potential and our ability as created beings to lift ourselves out of misery and into enlightenment. At least we the living, are afforded that chance.

  6. #96
    Senior Member catherine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Williamsmith View Post

    Your tolerance of an abortion based simply on its unwanted status and its unexpectedness is surprising given your personal convictions of life’s potential and our ability as created beings to lift ourselves out of misery and into enlightenment. At least we the living, are afforded that chance.
    My decision to have this baby under extreme circumstances was made only after I fearlessly searched my heart and soul and was able to finally determine that I had enough love to offer another child and enough emotional resources to nurture it the way it should be nurtured. I would find physical resources one way or another, and most notably through the support of my family, which not every woman has. That was my decision to make. If I had made a different decision I would have been fine with it, because it was very early in my pregnancy. But, in any case, it was my decision, and I respect the right of another woman to make her own.

    And I'm not clear on this:

    Democrats love to establish classes of people that have no ability for upward mobility and then they feel good about marginalizing them to the point where their vote doesn’t matter.
    How is poverty and class marginalization the Democrats' fault?
    "Do any human beings ever realize life while they live it--every, every minute?" Emily Webb, Our Town
    www.silententry.wordpress.com

  7. #97
    Senior Member JaneV2.0's Avatar
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    Late-term abortions are almost always done because of gross abnormalities in the fetus and/or serious threats to the woman's health. I strongly believe decisions in these matters should be left to the woman and her doctor, and not subject to outside opinions.

  8. #98
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    Do blacks statistically have any less kids than whites? If not then both limit their fertility period. Abortion can be outlawed when birth control is 100% effective, until then it can be rare (as birth control is fairly effective afterall ...). ACA did a lot to make birth control widely available, it's why people rushed to make use of long term more expensive birth control when they feared it would become less accessible. Of course birth control should be free for everyone including long term birth control, vasectomies etc..
    If you want something to get done, ask a busy person. If you want them to have a nervous breakdown that is.

  9. #99
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    I watched Warren's announcement speech. It was all about economic populism and political reform. There was no mention of foreign policy that I heard, though the audio did cut out at times.

  10. #100
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    I watched Warren's announcement speech. It was all about economic populism and political reform. There was no mention of foreign policy that I heard, though the audio did cut out at times.
    she would probably continue existing foreign policy unless in the future she shows herself more hawkish than that (which might be possible from what I've heard, and that would make Bernie a better bet, if he would run, as I don't think he'd radically change foreign policy either but he's never struck me as being more hawkish than the norm). Tulsi Gabbard is the only one really criticizing foreign policy as far as I've heard, not that I really think she has much chance.
    If you want something to get done, ask a busy person. If you want them to have a nervous breakdown that is.

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