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Thread: 2020 Presidential Candidates

  1. #71
    Senior Member JaneV2.0's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan View Post
    Free health care and free education for all are a mainstay of the new democratic socialist party, and now free welfare for those "unwilling to work" is a part of the Green New Deal initiative. If the right-wing assumes the concept as a talking point, it is to remind the gullible that nothing is free.
    Negotiation requires that you always ask for more than you expect to get; I'm sure that's what's in play here. I've mostly been "unwilling to work" but I did it anyway.

    I'm guessing the right uses that particular talking point to rile up their base against a nebulous enemy. It's kind of at odds with their hatred of undocumented workers though, who mostly work their fingers to the bone for substandard wages.

  2. #72
    Senior Member JaneV2.0's Avatar
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    Or the spectacle Republican Representative Matt Gaetz made at a hearing on gun violence, trying to have Parkland parents ejected, and insisting that the real problem is those scary brown people from south of the border, and we need to build a wall. Apparently, he hasn't studied the subject much.

  3. #73
    Simpleton Alan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JaneV2.0 View Post
    I'm guessing the right uses that particular talking point to rile up their base against a nebulous enemy.
    The Democratic Socialists no longer operate within the political fringes, they're anything but nebulous.
    "Things should be made as simple as possible, but not one bit simpler." ~ Albert Einstein

  4. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by JaneV2.0 View Post
    LDAHL, cynicism doesn't become you, even though you embrace it.
    Is it cynical to doubt that the country at large is ripe for a historic lurch to the left? I donít think so. Is it cynical to suspect a crowded field of candidates eager to appeal to primary voters will make promises the general electorate will be less enthusiastic about? I donít think so. Is it cynical to to promise benefits to the public you know you canít possibly deliver? I think so.

  5. #75
    Senior Member JaneV2.0's Avatar
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    I don't see Democratic Socialists as the enemy--I was referring to the "unwilling to work" lazy others, supposedly lying around collecting large amounts of money while contributing little or nothing. Actually, that sounds a lot like the ruling class to me.

    I've been a registered Independent for 30+ years, but I admire European-style socialism. With some American tweaks, I think it could work here. What we have--I'd say a kakocracy--clearly isn't working for most of us.

  6. #76
    Senior Member jp1's Avatar
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    Polls show people to be more left than they describe themselves. Medicare for all polls really well for example, even with republicans. Iím sure if the question was Ďdo you want socialized medical care?í It would not poll nearly as well. Probably more in line with tax cuts for the rich and racist walls to keep the scary brown people out.

    Democrats have been running to the middle for decades now and that hasnt been particularly effective. Trumoís base is Fired Up. The only way the dems will win is if they get their base equally fired up. Milk toast middle of the road policies will fire up approximately one person.

  7. #77
    Senior Member JaneV2.0's Avatar
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    I'm very fond of many of our socialist institutions, particularly our socialist libraries, our socialist national parks, our socialist Coast Guard, our socialist fire departments, our socialist highway system, etc. etc. Capitalist medicine, prisons, etc. have proven themselves inferior, if not criminal (priced insulin lately?). Profit may work for Louboutin shoes, but the worship of profit poisons institutions designed to benefit the commons.

  8. #78
    Senior Member jp1's Avatar
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    The other thing i find interesting is that when we elect people to run the government who claim Ďgovernment canít do anything rightí that often turns out to be the case. I know correlation isnít necessarily causation but the coincidence makes one wonder.

  9. #79
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    I don't see Democratic Socialists as the enemy--I was referring to the "unwilling to work" lazy others, supposedly lying around collecting large amounts of money while contributing little or nothing.
    For every unwilling to work person (and I don't deny they exist, but I suspect they mostly live off relatives not the government) there are several who would give nearly anything just to be able work and earn money, but can't find a job. Now if we could somehow make sure that there were jobs enough for everyone (it would be good if they paid enough to live off of as well), I guess THEN and only then we would have room to complain about people not willing to work.

    So I take it all people who criticize people for not being willing to work are advocates of a job guarantee, otherwise there is no room to talk (and frankly I'm skeptical that that would work, it's not my favorite approach, but the necessity to advocate for that is not on me, as I'm not the one complaining about people not working or saying they have to work to get basic services, so I don't have to make sure there are jobs for everyone just so they can get medical care etc.).
    If you want something to get done, ask a busy person. If you want them to have a nervous breakdown that is.

  10. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by ApatheticNoMore View Post

    So I take it all people who criticize people for not being willing to work are advocates of a job guarantee, otherwise there is no room to talk
    I think these are the same folks who oppose abortion but don't want to provide for the unwanted children once they are born.

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