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Thread: 2020 Presidential Candidates

  1. #111
    Senior Member HappyHiker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JaneV2.0 View Post
    I'm very fond of many of our socialist institutions, particularly our socialist libraries, our socialist national parks, our socialist Coast Guard, our socialist fire departments, our socialist highway system, etc. etc. Capitalist medicine, prisons, etc. have proven themselves inferior, if not criminal (priced insulin lately?). Profit may work for Louboutin shoes, but the worship of profit poisons institutions designed to benefit the commons.
    Hear! Hear! Exactly Jane.
    Author of the green eco-thriller: Falling Through Time http://fallingthroughtime.com Editor of http://vibrantvillage.com

  2. #112
    Simpleton Alan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Williamsmith View Post
    To describe the presence of fetal development within a womb as “insensate collections of human cells” only serves to provide ethical insensitivity to potential decision makers.
    I think the "insensate collections of human cells" is a pretty apt description for a short period of time, I'm not sure how long but let's say it's around the 8 to 10 week range. The problem with the pro-abortion proponents is their refusal to acknowledge that sometime after that point, that group of cells becomes a defenseless person, they can't acknowledge the point because then they have to argue that it's ok to kill a baby, so it's very important to repeat over and over again that the baby only exists after birth, if it's allowed to exist that long.
    It's also important to the cause to loudly proclaim that anyone against unrestricted abortion is a hypocrite for whatever reason, thinking that gives them the moral high ground. It doesn't. They're ultimately on the wrong side of that argument.
    "Things should be made as simple as possible, but not one bit simpler." ~ Albert Einstein

  3. #113
    Senior Member JaneV2.0's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan View Post
    I think the "insensate collections of human cells" is a pretty apt description for a short period of time, I'm not sure how long but let's say it's around the 8 to 10 week range. The problem with the pro-abortion proponents is their refusal to acknowledge that sometime after that point, that group of cells becomes a defenseless person, they can't acknowledge the point because then they have to argue that it's ok to kill a baby, so it's very important to repeat over and over again that the baby only exists after birth, if it's allowed to exist that long.
    It's also important to the cause to loudly proclaim that anyone against unrestricted abortion is a hypocrite for whatever reason, thinking that gives them the moral high ground. It doesn't. They're ultimately on the wrong side of that argument.
    Which is a good argument for making abortion readily-available--with none of the barriers conservatives regularly construct--lack of facilities, waiting periods, pointless ultrasounds, hospital privileges, etc.etc. Clearly, early abortions are the better option. If you've read up on the subject, you know that some 90+% of procedures are performed in the first trimester. Better access to facilities would likely increase that statistic, along with the 66% that are performed in the first eight weeks. Universal access to all kinds of birth control and comprehensive sex education would likely reduce much of the demand.

  4. #114
    Simpleton Alan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JaneV2.0 View Post
    Which is a good argument for making abortion readily-available--with none of the barriers conservatives regularly construct--lack of facilities, waiting periods, pointless ultrasounds, hospital privileges, etc.etc.
    Abortions are readily available. I think a lot of the attempted barriers you mention are to ensure informed consent. If a potential new mother has only listened to pro abortionists, they may not realize this is a bigger deal than as presented.
    "Things should be made as simple as possible, but not one bit simpler." ~ Albert Einstein

  5. #115
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    A friend of mine had 3 grown children at 40. Stayed in a hotel and was raped while she was sleeping. Became pregnant with twins and was not sexually active. She had a abortion at 6 weeks. So you men think she should have been forced to have these babies?

  6. #116
    Senior Member JaneV2.0's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan View Post
    Abortions are readily available. I think a lot of the attempted barriers you mention are to ensure informed consent. If a potential new mother has only listened to pro abortionists, they may not realize this is a bigger deal than as presented.
    Louisiana is nearly down to one provider for the whole state, and access in many other states is problematic. Texas, with its vast spaces, requires many abortion seekers to drive more than 100 miles to a provider. So a poor woman will have to pay for gas and maybe lodging--for days if they require jumping through the hoops mentioned above. And most of them are poor. Rich women can always get safe abortions--even if they have to go abroad. See Sherri Finbine.

    You might give women a little more credit for understanding the issue.

  7. #117
    Williamsmith
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teacher Terry View Post
    A friend of mine had 3 grown children at 40. Stayed in a hotel and was raped while she was sleeping. Became pregnant with twins and was not sexually active. She had a abortion at 6 weeks. So you men think she should have been forced to have these babies?
    Why do you make this baseless assumption? In the form of an indictment of insensitivity?

  8. #118
    Senior Member jp1's Avatar
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    If the issue is really ‘women need to be fully cognizant of what they are doing’ perhaps we need to add abortion to the comprehensive sex ed curriculum that we should be teaching our kids/teens. Then if/when a woman is in a situation where she’s considering one we could be cinfident that she’d already been educated on the subject. But since that whole line of justification is probably a dishonest explanation of the various laws i suppose my suggestion would be a nonstarter.

  9. #119
    Williamsmith
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    Quote Originally Posted by JaneV2.0 View Post
    Louisiana is nearly down to one provider for the whole state, and access in many other states is problematic. Texas, with its vast spaces, requires many abortion seekers to drive more than 100 miles to a provider. So a poor woman will have to pay for gas and maybe lodging--for days if they require jumping through the hoops mentioned above. And most of them are poor. Rich women can always get safe abortions--even if they have to go abroad. See Sherri Finbine.

    You might give women a little more credit for understanding the issue.
    There are more than a half million abortions performed on a yearly basis. That hardly seems like a number that reflects a difficult to obtain medical procedure.

  10. #120
    Senior Member jp1's Avatar
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    The difficulty, or lack thereof, depends on where one lives. In texas, as jane mentions, quite difficult, especially if one is poor and the requirements turn it into a multiday process. In NYC, probably not so much.

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