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Thread: 2020 Presidential Candidates

  1. #261
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    Quote Originally Posted by catherine View Post

    On a related note, I read yesterday that all the healthcare industry lobbyists are lining up ready to attack "Medicare for all." And what are they using as their best argument? "Obamacare is flawed, but it's working for most people so if it ain't broke, why fix it." All of a sudden Obamacare is their best friend.
    They should like Obamacare. It forced everyone to buy their insurance and didn't do anything to contain their costs.

  2. #262
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    Quote Originally Posted by jp1 View Post
    It's going to be difficult to have life or pursue happiness if the planet becomes uninhabitable. But, hey, at least we'll have the liberty to all be dead.
    People relying on the threat of destruction to advance an agenda and gain power is hardly new in history. “Eliminate right to work laws or the planet is toast” doesn’t impress me as either manifesto or bargaining position.

  3. #263
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    It's going to be difficult to have life or pursue happiness if the planet becomes uninhabitable. But, hey, at least we'll have the liberty to all be dead.
    but 200+ years ago when the population of the earth was what and there was little ecological collapse is really where we should be getting our ideas, not modern science. A new dark ages, well you tell me.

    I would be much less skeptical with a climate crusade that wasn’t larded with a social agenda.
    I don't believe it. However there is HR 763 which is a carbon tax with dividend program one could push for if their real problem was the GND social programs. HR 763 does actually seem to be serious legislation in some ways MORE serious in addressing climate change than the GND, it doesn't appear to be industry nonsense crafted by polluting industries (anything of course could be corrupted). If almost anyone opposed to the GND starts really fighting for this I will take them seriously, but I really doubt many will, and until then I won't because I don't think they really care about addressing these issues. Of course the two (HR 763 and GND) probably should both be passed and even linked (there's no reason not to run on and support both. GND is less fleshed out at this point though.).

    About HR 763:
    https://citizensclimatelobby.org/ene...-dividend-act/
    If you want something to get done, ask a busy person. If you want them to have a nervous breakdown that is.

  4. #264
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    They should like Obamacare. It forced everyone to buy their insurance and didn't do anything to contain their costs.
    they were in the room negotiating it. Yes, they like the ACA especially as originally passed, Trump changes have not helped any (nor have the helped people needing healthcare needless to say).
    If you want something to get done, ask a busy person. If you want them to have a nervous breakdown that is.

  5. #265
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    Quote Originally Posted by LDAHL View Post
    People relying on the threat of destruction to advance an agenda and gain power is hardly new in history. “Eliminate right to work laws or the planet is toast” doesn’t impress me as either manifesto or bargaining position.
    Or, as some wag said "right to work for less." Corporations want all the financial benefits of others' labor, but none of the pesky regulations.

  6. #266
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    Quote Originally Posted by JaneV2.0 View Post
    Or, as some wag said "right to work for less." Corporations want all the financial benefits of others' labor, but none of the pesky regulations.
    But what has that got to do with pernicious gasses in the atmosphere?

  7. #267
    Senior Member JaneV2.0's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LDAHL View Post
    But what has that got to do with pernicious gasses in the atmosphere?
    Regulations? I understand the Trump administration is busily rolling back all the safeguards for our air and water as fast as they can.

  8. #268
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    I assume this is in there because they realize that a change in policy on this magnitude will result in some people having difficulty transitioning to the new economic reality.
    that for sure, but more importantly it's trying to address climate change while giving the bottom 70-80% of the population what they actually want, which isn't more of the current economics (which is killing the planet to be sure, but is often killing them in the meantime or life expectancy wouldn't be falling). So there is that. It's a selling point.

    but from a more elitist perspective (which that surely isn't), there is no reason addressing climate change should leave the poor suffering more. I mean, I'd be happy with almost any seroius attempt to address climate change but both the GND and HR 763 seriously address the impact on the poor, as they should, as is sane and right.
    If you want something to get done, ask a busy person. If you want them to have a nervous breakdown that is.

  9. #269
    Senior Member JaneV2.0's Avatar
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    I'm not as familiar with California's laws as I probably should be. but I'm encouraged that their elected officials are at least trying to effect changes that are good for the planet and its inhabitants.

  10. #270
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    Quote Originally Posted by JaneV2.0 View Post
    Regulations? I understand the Trump administration is busily rolling back all the safeguards for our air and water as fast as they can.
    Then why Velcro on all the extraneous agenda items to the environmental stuff? If it truly is the life and death proposition they claim it to be, aren’t they diluting their argument with all the sideshows?

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