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Thread: So Did Trump Cave? Is he weakened?

  1. #31
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    Thank you Flowers, that is well put. They did have 2 years to work on the problems that our country faces and they didn't. Now it is the fault of people who weren't even elected yet. I knew that something had radically changed when my Buddhist teacher started saying it was not time to find ways to connect and understand but to take action against what was harming others.

    There are so many parallels with my experiences in an abusive relationship, counselors who said we each needed to own 50% of a problem but not all problems are 50-50. There is a reality here (like border security is not best addressed by a wall according to experts in security and large wall construction). In my experience I found many different responses to my ex who had more power by the people around us. One was that I was encouraged to take more of the responsibility because I was apparently more mature. Another was that he was rather out of touch with the impact of his actions and thought our friends preferred him.

    Trump and other leaders are so out of touch as we have seen with the recent callous comments about how the furloughed workers can afford food and housing payments. They really believe in some magical period of American generosity. I am not sure there was a time when a grocer would float you on a month's of food because you were a good neighbor. However this explains so much about their version of things. How we do not need tax supported services because average Americans are just helping each other. It has been eye opening to understand this.

  2. #32
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    Can I add a slightly different take: I despise the media's emphasis on winners/losers. It's been the mode of covering politics for many years now - who is ahead, who is behind, like a horse race or a wrestling match. The constant polling and the many minutes of news devoted to this means that what gets lost in this frenzy is the facts. People get upset because their side took a perceived hit, just like a pro athlete in a game, so now they look for some way to attack the other side's politician and so it continues.

    Maybe it's asking too much, but I believe while some residents of our country relish the winners/losers game, I think most of us rational adults would prefer to return to a clear discussion of the facts. Because if we can't agree on the facts, we can't agree on policy and priorities for our future.

  3. #33
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    I don't hate Trump. He isn't worth that much emotion or space in my head. I just want him gone. Gone before he destroys what is left of the US's reputation in the world. Gone before he completely takes away all rights from women.

    There is no emergency at the border. There is no crisis, except that of the Trump administration's making. There is less immigration than even two years ago. If the administration were serious about dealing with the issue of illegal aliens, they would get to work enforcing visas and making sure people leave the country when their visas expire.

    I am tired of the lies coming from this administration. I am tired of seeing so many people associated with the campaign and administration charged with serious crimes. I am tired of having the president shoved in my face daily by the news media. And I'm tired of a president who thinks his job is to be in the news constantly. I'm tired of a president running the country as if it were a reality tv show. I am tired of the mean and hateful and untrue tweets, tweets that are not befitting the conduct of the highest office in the land.

    He couldn't get the wall when Republicans controlled both houses of Congress. Why does he think he can get it now? Oh, because a Fox News host belittled him for not getting the wall. I am tired of a president who has no strength of character but who bends to every Fox News host and their criticism of him.

    I'm just tired. Tired of having to make a trip to the local Coast Guard base every week for the past month to deliver gift cards and diapers. Tired of having to write and call Congress to help protect the limited rights women have. Tired of having to reassure those around me that the country has weathered the storm before and it will again (this is all the harder because I'm not sure it can this time).

    I'm not saying impeach him. For one thing, that leaves us with Pence. For another, his base will only see impeachment as a further threat to them. It would make any hope we have of even partly uniting this divided country more and more impossible.

    Pelosi for the moment seems to be able to contain him. Good. If the Democrats can keep this up for two more years and limit the damage to the country, we can start afresh in 2020.

    (For the record, I am registered as "undeclared" because after the last two presidential elections, I cannot stand to be a member of either party.)

  4. #34
    Senior Member Rogar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by flowerseverywhere View Post
    Iím getting old and through my life I have seen much meanness, hate, racism and evil. We all have a choice. I choose not to condone hatefulness.....

    He is truly a mean mean lonely man with ugliness in his heart which is why he is so hated.
    Seems slightly contradictory to me, if I've not taken it out of context. Anger and hate are not healthy emotions spiritually or physically in my book, whether it's coming from 45, his supporters, or from his enemies. I have been thinking about the stoicism thread and how it is good to step back and be objective without the negativity that goes along with it.

    I know people who are angry and go out to do something about it by campaigning door to door, or pestering politicians with phone calls and letters, or going to organized protests, which seems like a healthy way to diffuse things and deal with the emotions.

    Other wise, it is just like being angry that it is cold outside or drivers are bad. It's something we all probably experience, but can also control and let go of with not much effort.

    I'm not perfect on this, but there is a lot of unnecessary anger and hate from both sides of the fence (or wall in some cases) that just is not healthy.

  5. #35
    Senior Member flowerseverywhere's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rogar View Post
    Seems slightly contradictory to me, if I've not taken it out of context. Anger and hate are not healthy emotions spiritually or physically in my book, whether it's coming from 45, his supporters, or from his enemies. I have been thinking about the stoicism thread and how it is good to step back and be objective without the negativity that goes along with it.

    I know people who are angry and go out to do something about it by campaigning door to door, or pestering politicians with phone calls and letters, or going to organized protests, which seems like a healthy way to diffuse things and deal with the emotions.

    Other wise, it is just like being angry that it is cold outside or drivers are bad. It's something we all probably experience, but can also control and let go of with not much effort.

    I'm not perfect on this, but there is a lot of unnecessary anger and hate from both sides of the fence (or wall in some cases) that just is not healthy.
    I have been doing all those things, plus I helped pick up food for our local food bank. We have 1200 prison guards working about thirty minutes from here. I’m angry I had bring food to help people who did nothing wrong but go wo work in probably one of the worst jobs you can think of. And I volunteer in a local thrift store that raises over $500,000 per year for local poor people, veterans and drug addicts. So my energy is directed towards doing the most amount of good. It makes me angry to see roadblocks at every turn for hardworking Americans.

    Visuallizing peace and love, meditating or saying thoughts and prayers are no more helpful than what I have done. Sorry, but for the pro life party they have sure made life miserable for a lot of hard working Americans whose only crime was being a pawn to King Donald and his whims. Why wasn’t this an issue for the last two years? No reason except a chance to be meaner than normal.

    And one one more thing, the federal workforce has a lot of veterans as they get preferred hiring status. It’s never OK to deliberately make life harder for our veterans.

  6. #36
    Senior Member Rogar's Avatar
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    I wasn't pointing fingers, Flowers. Just that it is as wrong for Trump to hate as it is to hate back. It doesn't take meditating or praying to see the wrong in something and wanting change without being hateful.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rogar View Post
    I wasn't pointing fingers, Flowers. Just that it is as wrong for Trump to hate as it is to hate back. It doesn't take meditating or praying to see the wrong in something and wanting change without being hateful.
    I think this is a large part of my issue with Trump. There is so much hatred in this administration. Hatred of immigrants, refugees, NATO countries, China, all nations Trump seems to think are taking advantage of the US, Ms. Clinton, Democrats in general, women in general, anyone who says anything less than flattering about Trump, the media . . . the list just goes on and on.

    And the president--the president!--spews this hatred daily on Twitter. He *encourages* his base to hate, to mock, to ridicule. This has affected the entire country.

    There have been presidents I did not like before. I did not like some of their policies, some of the actions they took. But I could respect that they were doing what they thought was best for the country as a whole.

    Trump seems to be out to improve his own situation, and then the situation of other very wealthy people. I do not think he has the interests of the average American or of the country as a whole in mind when he insults other countries, slaps random tariffs on multiple things, threatens to leave NATO, refuses to admit the facts of climate change, threatens the rights of voters and the rights of women.

    I have never felt so threatened as a woman as I have the past two years. That alone is enough to make me want a change in government.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miss Cellaneous View Post
    I have never felt so threatened as a woman as I have the past two years. That alone is enough to make me want a change in government.
    This seems to be a recurring theme, what exactly makes women feel threatened under this administration?
    "Things should be made as simple as possible, but not one bit simpler." ~ Albert Einstein

  9. #39
    Senior Member iris lilies's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan View Post
    This seems to be a recurring theme, what exactly makes women feel threatened under this administration?
    Not to pile on, but I had the same thought and wish to know which woman freedoms have been reduced or even threatened to be reduced?

    Thios is one of the areas where there doesnt seem to be a meeting of the minds of two sides because
    I cannot grok what Miss C means. Despite pussy hat rhetoric and those optics (which were actually pretty funny, and effective as I look back on it) I do not understand the actual, verifiable, threats to women’s rights carried out by the federal government. Yes it is all great theater to protest in pink hats, but what is being protested?

    Pretend I am an Aspie ( which I suppose I am, a tiny bit) and speak to me in specific terms about literal happenings.

  10. #40
    Senior Member gimmethesimplelife's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan View Post
    This seems to be a recurring theme, what exactly makes women feel threatened under this administration?
    It's not just women that feel threatened under this Regime - as a gay man, I feel very much threatened, too. And though I'm a bit into Men's Rights these days, my take personally is that were I female, on a logical basis, i'd feel threatened by the Trump Regime, too. I can totally see this and understand this. Rob

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