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Thread: 10 year anniversary of the bull market

  1. #11
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    Catherine, we knew people that similar things happened to. In hindsight you always make the right decisions. Not so easy in real life.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by iris lilies View Post
    yes, agreed that losing everything doesnt make sense for the average American investor in mutual funds and the like. It is hyperbole to support the false narrative about The Evil Wealthy People.Sure, people who SOLD OFF all of their financial
    instruments and then spent that moneyósure, they are chit out of luck. They sold their holdings.

    I am glad you said this because I was going to say the same thing.

    We ďlostĒ maybe 25% to 35% of our assets on paper at the time, but we didnt sell the instruments we owned. And, they rebounded. And thanks to The Donald they really bumped up in recent years.
    I don't say thanks to Donald. He came on board when things were up. As usual though, he likes to take the credit.

  3. #13
    Senior Member dmc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by catherine View Post
    So we were dumba$$es for losing our money. I know it seems that way.

    Here's what the NYT says about that:
    But to buy stocks, you need money. After watching their fortunes ó and retirement funds ó shrivel, few Americans were in a position to take a fresh flier on beaten-down stocks.

    Those who could were already well-off. In 2007, the wealthiest 10 percent of American families owned 81 percent of the nationís household stock market wealth, according Ed Wolff, a professor of economics at New York University who studies the distribution of wealth in the United States. By 2016, they owned 84 percent, he said.

    The recovery in the stock market made those families even richer, increasing their net worth by double-digit percentages. Median American family wealth, meanwhile, dropped 34 percent.

    Here's an example of how it's hard to just ride it out. This is what happened to me. Bear with me and I apologize for repeating myself--you've heard most of this before.

    I had a late in life career change (I was 46 at the time, in 1998). Up to that point I couldn't make ends meet for a variety of reasons that I won't go into to protect the innocent. I had a low-level job raising 4 kids on $28k. In a plucky and brave moment (if I do say so myself) I asked my superior for a job that I was, on paper, vastly unqualified for, but I got it anyway. I determined that I would work hard and double my salary in 5 years. I did it in one.. and then by 2007 I had quadrupled it. In the meantime I was able to buy a reasonably priced car and put 3 kids through college, and using airline points, bring my family to Scotland.

    I also saved up $75,000 which was in a 401k

    Then disaster hit and you know what happened in 2007. In the subsequent couple of years of the recession, my $75k shrunk to $25k. At that point, I needed to make a property tax payment on the house we had bought in foreclosure, and I had various other bills associated with the two extra houses I was now responsible for legally. (yes, yes,yes, if I had it to over again, and had a crystal ball to tell me that the housing market was just about to go bust I wouldn't have put myself in that position--but who knew?? The market was screaming then).

    My MIL would not pay the property taxes or other bills. So I sat for several days to see if there would be any way I could avoid liquidating my 401k. I couldn't see it. So I thought, oh, well, I'll liquidate and then I'll pay myself back as soon as we sell the house.

    Which didn't happen for another 5 years. And when it did sell, we took a $100k loss. I got no money at the closing. So I had no money to pay myself back.

    That's how it happened in my case. I was not out buying Prada bags and Lexus cars and cruises and then found myself in a financial whoopsie! I consider myself pragmatic, and reasonably sensible when it comes to money, although I am an easy touch when it comes to my family. I don't consider myself a proverbial grasshopper. Maybe I'm not an ant, but I'm definitely not a hapless dumba$$ either, and I feel that there are a lot of Americans out there like me who suffered in the recession and who struggled or are still struggling to make up for lost ground.
    Unless you lost your job, how did the market cause you be responsible for three Homes? If they were an investment how were you figuring to pay the taxes? It sounds like you were doing fine, paying for college and overseas trips. But then you didnít have the money to pay taxes and had to sell your 401 k. No emergency fund to tap first?

    What wealthy person made you make these choices?

  4. #14
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    Catherine is not blaming rich people for losing her money. She is talking about what a tough time it was for many people. Also she is just stating facts about how so much of our countries wealth belong to a few. I am not sure why the MIL didn’t pay the taxes to help out since Catherine helped her by co-signing. People make errors in decisions because there is no crystal ball. It gets tiring for people that have had good jobs all their lives and no financial setbacks to pick on people less fortunate. It’s really getting to be a theme on this forum.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teacher Terry View Post
    Catherine is not blaming rich people for losing her money. She is talking about what a tough time it was for many people. Also she is just stating facts about how so much of our countries wealth belong to a few. I am not sure why the MIL didnít pay the taxes to help out since Catherine helped her by co-signing. People make errors in decisions because there is no crystal ball. It gets tiring for people that have had good jobs all their lives and no financial setbacks to pick on people less fortunate. Itís really getting to be a theme on this forum.
    Ive made my share of bad financial decisions. I lost quite a bit in the tech bust, but it was my fault, no one else. Iíve also had to move across the country a few times due to job loss and to go where the jobs were.

    I understand those just starting out, and that unforsean events can happen. But many also just donít plan well. Those that chose to live below their means and save can withstand the rainy days.

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teacher Terry View Post
    Catherine is not blaming rich people for losing her money. She is talking about what a tough time it was for many people. Also she is just stating facts about how so much of our countries wealth belong to a few. I am not sure why the MIL didn’t pay the taxes to help out since Catherine helped her by co-signing. People make errors in decisions because there is no crystal ball. It gets tiring for people that have had good jobs all their lives and no financial setbacks to pick on people less fortunate. It’s really getting to be a theme on this forum.
    Thank you.

    dmc, it is a long, boring story, and I'm over trying to justify it to myself and others--I know I started this thread, but I'm ready to finish it. As TT suggests, if you've never walked in another person's shoes, it's very easy to make snap judgments.
    "Do any human beings ever realize life while they live it--every, every minute?" Emily Webb, Our Town
    www.silententry.wordpress.com

  7. #17
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    I have known people with plenty of savings and living below their means that got hit by divorce, job losses, disability, huge medical bills with insurance, etc. It can turn even the best plans into a dumpster fire. Between my job helping people with disabilities get back to work and some friends lives life can be very cruel even to people that do everything right. I suggest people feel lucky and grateful versus superior.

  8. #18
    Senior Member dmc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teacher Terry View Post
    I have known people with plenty of savings and living below their means that got hit by divorce, job losses, disability, huge medical bills with insurance, etc. It can turn even the best plans into a dumpster fire. Between my job helping people with disabilities get back to work and some friends lives life can be very cruel even to people that do everything right. I suggest people feel lucky and grateful versus superior.
    i agree that some have had a hard time. And some have done well because of hard work, thoughtful investments, and living below their means. A good work ethic, good planning, and being frugal is not lucky.

  9. #19
    Senior Member iris lilies's Avatar
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    LDahl said it in another thread, it is better to be lucky than smart.

  10. #20
    Senior Member iris lilies's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by frugal-one View Post
    I don't say thanks to Donald. He came on board when things were up. As usual though, he likes to take the credit.
    Look at the sharp upturn when he was elected.

    Hey I am not saying the market is rational.
    Last edited by iris lilies; 3-9-19 at 9:33pm.

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