Inappropriate touching

[catherine]

In the realm of the #MeToo movement, we now have "Inappropriate Touching" as evidenced by the allegations thrown at Joe Biden. Unlike victims of #MeToo, these women have agreed that they were not traumatized in any way--they are accusing him of acting like their old uncles that aren't good at honoring personal space but who otherwise are harmless.

Is that a condition for a person running for public office now? I once worked under a superintendent of schools, and he was one of those "touchy" people. A hand on a shoulder, a brief hug, a head tousle, but it was completely harmless and not one student or parent complained, to my knowledge anyway.

I'm imagining this new offense is maybe set up by Republicans, but I hate to sound like I'm a vast right wing conspiracy theorist.

But if it takes hold, this may set a precedent. What will the rules be? Women wear tags that say, I accept handshakes from men but not two-handed handshakes?

[JaneV2.0]

Much ado about nothing. How about "Back off Joe." (Or Al, as the case may be.) These guys aren't predatory, and women aren't so delicate they can't fend off overly enthusiastic greetings.

[Simplemind]

Women do this too. Some men and women are just touchers. I am not a fan of people being in my bubble that I don't bring in. I was amazed when I was pregnant that absolute strangers would come up and touch my stomach. I had no problem taking a step back and telling them "please don't". It isn't even a blip on their radar that they have invaded your space and always seem to be surprised when you bring their attention to it.

[oldhat]

This happens so often--something that's a real problem (sexual harassment of women) gets blown up out of proportion and starts to verge on hysteria. Nobody should be touched without their permission, but it happens. I'm a pretty reserved guy, and there have been plenty of times in my life people have touched me in ways that made me feel uncomfortable.

I understand that it's not quite the same thing for women, but it's not entirely different either. I think the root of the problem here is that for a long time women were expected to err on the side of forgiveness and it (understandably) grated on them. But now the pendulum has swung in the opposite direction, as pendulums do. But too far in the other direction, IMHO.

[iris lilies]

I don’t care what Joe Biden does, I think it’s probably harmless. But really I have to ask – do you remember when this whole touchy-feely thing came into being in the workplace? I’m thinking it was the early 80’s. I just remember that it didn’t happen innocently before that, at least I didn’t run into it, until the late 80s. I had a boss who did the whole hand on shoulder hand on back business and it was never in an inappropriate place, But I just remember thinking well this is weird.

I think in 1975 Joe Biden would not be putting his hands on anybody because it was just weird and every instance of it was harassment.


Of course before that I had a boss who did the touchy-feely thing inappropriately but that was clearly inappropriate, and not 80s style touchy-feely stuff. He was copping a feel ala 1950s Mad Men.

Since Catherine brought it up, I will relate what happened in St. Louis last week. Don Marsh, a news broadcaster who has been around forever, he’s got to be in his 70s, quit his NPR gig abruptly last week. He interviewed his old TV colleague Karen Foss and as she was entering the studio he remarked to her hey You look good. A common pleasantry.

Later a young female producer mentioned to him that that comment was inappropriate. He quit on the spot. The producer didn’t talk about disciplinary action, she didn’t make a big deal of it from what I can tell, but she did mention it to him and it was enough to make him mad and he quit.

It is true that we do not know what led up to this incident and if there were other issues with Don Marsh and this producer. But this situation in isolation is ridiculous – and Karen Foss said she took this comnent it as the simple pleasantry it was.

[Teacher Terry]

I think it’s now just becoming ridiculous. Everything seems to get taken to the extreme.

[ToomuchStuff]

Some here, are the touchy-feely types as evidenced by the {hugs}. I have to fight my natural fight urge when people do that shit. (abducted, knife and gunpoint, dealt with serial killer and a few other murderers, and more)
Why should gender make a lick of a difference? I had a discussion with a lawyer friend about a case once. The Judge commented "it is flirting if they like you, sexual harassment if they don't". That doesn't even handle things like generational differences or people that have known one another for so long (their boundaries have evolved, aka the Don Marsh, Karen Foss thing).

The big difference in the Biden case, is he has bodyguards, so the reaction to punch him in the Adam's apple, wouldn't go down well.

[Tradd]

The owner of one of the trucking companies I deal with a lot is a very old school Italian guy. He is all hugs and kisses. There’s just something about him that creeps me out. The other women in the office have no issue with him. I simply tell him I don’t do hugs and he doesn’t force the issue.

[LDAHL]

In an era of ascendant victim culture, oppression will inevitably be defined down from obvious to reasonable to questionable to absurd.

[Alan]

I'm imagining this new offense is maybe set up by Republicans, but I hate to sound like I'm a vast right wing conspiracy theorist.

Republicans have enjoyed joking about Biden's touchy-feely, gropey, sniffy, kissy tendencies for years. I remember being called on it here a year or two ago, but I don't think Republicans have anything to do with this one. Rumor has it Biden's camp thinks your favorite Democratic Socialist is behind it. https://www.axios.com/2020-president...a096d7fd3.html