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Thread: RobóMenís Rights Activism

  1. #21
    Senior Member Yossarian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jp1 View Post
    I'm curious what the relationship is between MGTOW's and Incels. Are they one and the same? Or do the MGTOWs acknowledge that it's their decision to become celibate rather than blame the people who don't want to have sex with them due to their lack of sexual attraction?
    Well, the result is the same, but Incel is "involuntarily celibate" so it's a matter of choice in how you got there.

    And red pill is not politically correct, it is purely about effectiveness, which irritates some people. But then there are some things that make you go hmmm. For example, one of the widely accepted tenets is that women are predisposed to hook up with sexually attractive men, what we called "studs" in my day (I am also 52), or what they call "Chads" today. This is even at the expense of other more equal relationships, so this is the golden age of dating for attractive men. There are some studies that show the vast majority of women online chase the top 20% of men (kind of a sexual Pareto Principle), whereas men are more inclined to consider comparable partners. This leaves a lot of men without partners, thus "incels". Tinder is more than a dating site, it's a social engineering catalyst.

    And you may want to say BS, but consider the empirical evidence. How do you explain this:

    For most of the past three decades, 20-something men and women reported similar rates of sexlessness. But that has changed in recent years. Since 2008, the share of men younger than 30 reporting no sex has nearly tripled, to 28 percent. That's a much steeper increase than the 8 percentage point increase reported among their female peers.

    https://www.sciencealert.com/the-per...-a-record-high
    For that to be true, a smaller number of men have to be having sex with a larger number of women. So people want to dismiss red pill as misogyny and it does attract some troubled people, but like I said before at its core it's just amoral and empirical.

  2. #22
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    My perception of what I've read is that incel men are wanting to get sexual partners despite what might be considered their own obvious turn-offs: overweight, minimal hygiene, shaky financial situation, bland/no personality, etc.

    In contrast, women's magazines in particular are constantly exhorting single women to improve their odds by keeping in shape, wearing fashionable clothes, getting trendy haircuts and eyeglasses, having a pleasing and accessible personality, hanging out in places where single men congregate, making an effort to learn their potential partner's areas of interest like sports or cars, etc.

    I realize that this is a shallow overview, and I don't know any incels personally, but I wonder if this is part of it, i.e., not putting any effort into attracting the partner you want.

  3. #23
    Senior Member JaneV2.0's Avatar
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    I see the men's rights movement--at least as it limits itself to legal issues--as different from the misogynistic incel thing, though I'm sure there's overlap.

    Incels' grievance is that women owe them sex somehow and aren't delivering. They celebrate mass murderers who target women, like Elliot Rodger.

    Men's rights advocates believe (justifiably, in some cases) they don't get a fair shake in divorce and custody cases. At least that's my take on it.

  4. #24
    Senior Member herbgeek's Avatar
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    There are some studies that show the vast majority of women online chase the top 20% of men (kind of a sexual Pareto Principle), whereas men are more inclined to consider comparable partners.
    Back in my dating days, which admittedly was several decades ago, I found that what I would consider unattractive men, or ones who had little to contribute to a relationship almost invariably went for the super model/popular girl type instead of someone of similar attractiveness and social interaction skills.

  5. #25
    Senior Member jp1's Avatar
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    There's nothing involuntary about the incels' celebacy. It would more accurately be called lazy cellibacy because they're too lazy/unwilling to look in the mirror and figure out why women are not attracted to them. But I suppose it's easier to take a whiny, self-pitying attitude and blame others for one's problems. But at least they aren't likely to have children and pass their crappy attitudes on to another generation.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by herbgeek View Post
    Back in my dating days, which admittedly was several decades ago, I found that what I would consider unattractive men, or ones who had little to contribute to a relationship almost invariably went for the super model/popular girl type instead of someone of similar attractiveness and social interaction skills.
    I attribute it to most men under 30 being abusive jerks (it seems to be all I ever found), and if most women are like me they can take or leave sex so don't really need to be in relationship the way men do (but emotional abuse even though one keeps taking it and taking it gets old. what I needed was to be treated well). But call me ACE if you like but it's only partly true. It's probably the case I gave up on men even influenced by American culture and it's toxic masculinity. It wasn't conscious but .. I'm dating someone raised by immigrants who never seems to have been entirely part of this culture. They aren't stereotypiclly masculine (you know for cis and all). I men I think I couldn't even deal with the BS anymore.

    Are there good men out there? I'm sure there are. I just kept dating red pill and other jerks. But men over 30 are probably much more mature and just better bets all around (don't know what to say to women under 30 ...). I was probably single so much because I just kept encountering red pill jerks, bad luck and all, yea.
    If you want something to get done, ask a busy person. If you want them to have a nervous breakdown that is.

  7. #27
    Senior Member catherine's Avatar
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    A person very close to me had something really horrible happen to him. He works in corporate, and he was colleagues on a couple of teams with a particular woman, I'll call "M."

    They were working on a project, and she was doing things unilaterally--and wrong. So she would do things they hadn't agreed on, and then email people, leaving him off the email chain. Things got so bad, he spoke to their supervisor about it. Well, she found out and went berserk, saying he was out to sabatoge her and make her look bad. He assured her that wasn't the case--that he just needed her to be on the same team with him and for them to work together.

    Well, a few days later, he was approached by HR. She had accused him of sexual harassment. To make a long story short, a) it was a completely bogus claim, b) they took him off the committees that he was instrumental on--big projects that he enjoyed--while they investigated. He was petrified to even pass her alone in the hall for fear of what she might say.

    Thankfully, HR was unable to corroborate her allegations, and the charges were dismissed. But it disrupted a couple of months of valuable work time, put him in stress mode, and soured the entire workplace for him--he'll likely look for another job soon.

    While I think the #MeToo movement is valuable in many ways, when you have women doing other women a grave disservice by making these things up, it's a disgrace for those women and a shame for the men they victimize.

    I guess the moral of the story is that both males and females can be perpetrators as well as victims. We're just not used to seeing the shoe on the other foot.
    "Do any human beings ever realize life while they live it--every, every minute?" Emily Webb, Our Town
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  8. #28
    Senior Member razz's Avatar
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    When did life get so complicated?

    I dated a very limited number of men; I just wasn't that interested beyond friendship. I met a dear man who became a rare friend and then married him. Doesn't that kind of simple relationship happen anymore?
    Gandhi: Happiness is when what you think, what you say and what you do are in harmony .

  9. #29
    Senior Member bae's Avatar
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    The whole "pickup-artist"/"game" subculture is really bizarre to me.

  10. #30
    Senior Member Yossarian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bae View Post
    The whole "pickup-artist"/"game" subculture is really bizarre to me.
    I think PUA has been pushed to the corners, authenticity seems to outshine manipulation, even when it requires transformation.

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