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Thread: Willoughby......

  1. #1
    Senior Member gimmethesimplelife's Avatar
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    Willoughby......

    Does anyone here remember the Twilight Zone episode about Wllioughby? I think the actual episode was entitled The Stop At Willoughby?

    It's about a man who works in advertising and loses a big account. He is berated by his boss and goes home on the train to his wife who is devoid of any sympathy or compassion and is just in it for the money. The episode goes on to show more issues with his wife and his boss and interspersed with this the man is on the commuter train having fantasies about a train stop called Willoughby. At this stop life seems to be stuck in a time warp of a simpler life in the 1800's. The episode ends with the man stepping off the train when the stop of Willoughby is announced - to his death. At the end we the doors on the hearse carrying his body closing and on the doors reads - Willoughby and Sons.

    This episode really moves me in so many ways. First there's the men's rights/pretty much lack of men's rights men are expected to face if employed at a certain level and married. Beyond that, there's a tie in to simple living in the sense that the wife's materialism is exposed for the soul crushing issue it truly is and how her materialism just makes a horrible situation even worse. There's also the is modern life worth this angle.

    This episode was truly before it's time and I say bravo that it ever made it to the airwaves in the United States. It does starkly show much of what is wrong with both America and society and how both often harm men. I'd recommend this be required watching in public schools around the age of 8 - my experience is that was when I started questioning things. Rob

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    Rob, I remember that well as it was creepy.

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    Senior Member catherine's Avatar
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    I remember that episode. Great one. Rod Serling was such a genius.

    Similarly, the Twilight Zone that made a huge impact on me as a child was Number 12 Looks Just Like You. That episode framed my view of beauty for my entire life. So, Rob, in the same way that Willoughby framed your view of what being a man is/should be like, "Number 12" framed my view of what it means to be a woman. I abhor the LA version of beauty, and even though we are 50 years closer to the world of "Number 12" because of the easy access to beauty-on-demand, I will never succumb to those values. I'd rather have the interesting face of a wise old elder than an ageless mask. I've earned my wrinkles.

    Here is a 6 minute version of Number 12 Looks Just Like You.

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    Senior Member gimmethesimplelife's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by catherine View Post
    I remember that episode. Great one. Rod Serling was such a genius.

    Similarly, the Twilight Zone that made a huge impact on me as a child was Number 12 Looks Just Like You. That episode framed my view of beauty for my entire life. So, Rob, in the same way that Willoughby framed your view of what being a man is/should be like, "Number 12" framed my view of what it means to be a woman. I abhor the LA version of beauty, and even though we are 50 years closer to the world of "Number 12" because of the easy access to beauty-on-demand, I will never succumb to those values. I'd rather have the interesting face of a wise old elder than an ageless mask. I've earned my wrinkles.

    Here is a 6 minute version of Number 12 Looks Just Like You.

    Catherine, though we've never met, I just want to say Kudos! I very much respect you for your take on the whole BS Beauty thing that women do indeed face in this society. My hat is off to you. Rob

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    as you know you have a very odd interpretation of things. The longing for a simpler life yes, that seems to be what it is about, and it sounds good, and there is a cold wife. But the rest .. . in application to actual reality the only thought I had is: "I'm glad my boyfriend likes me even when I'm not rolling in dough, that he's nothing like that wife. I'm lucky for that".
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  6. #6
    Senior Member gimmethesimplelife's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ApatheticNoMore View Post
    as you know you have a very odd interpretation of things. The longing for a simpler life yes, that seems to be what it is about, and it sounds good, and there is a cold wife. But the rest .. . in application to actual reality the only thought I had is: "I'm glad my boyfriend likes me even when I'm not rolling in dough, that he's nothing like that wife. I'm lucky for that".
    Something I've learned as I get older - interpretation is in the eye of the beholder. In my circle, my take is not the slightest bit odd. In the 85006 my political views are run of the mill and in my Men's Rights activism my takes on these issues are not considered odd - not one iota.

    Now let's flip the script - suppose I were to meet up with some ladies from my high school days - let's say the cheerleaders or the ones from money or the ones who were successful on their own (and there were a few such, granted here and now) - my take on male/female relations? Would not be likely especially well understood nor appreciated. Matter of fact, it was interesting to me that at my 30th High School Reunion, it was the men who were civil and kind to me - the ladies not so much, and in my high school days I was not a male rights activist - I was just trying to survive economically to the next day (but I was full of the activism that living such a way tends to generate, that much is true). I also refused to be someone I am not and I did not dress up for the reunion - I wore a nice, clean, and pleasantly but not overly faded pair of jeans (Lee jeans as I did not want to send any label messages of pretend status) and a generic blue button down shirt from a local thrift shop, along with secondhand shoes. But I will admit to wearing my best pair of secondhand shoes. Point is, I did notice several women from my past disregarding me with that certain look of disapproval though nothing directly unpleasant was said.

    My guess? Past memories - I did stand up for myself in high school, you better believe it - not socially, but I was very much an economic activist even back then - combined with what these ladies considered inappropriate attire for such a function. I'm older now and see through society even more than I did then so I shot them their disapproving looks back and refused to be the first one to drop eye contact.

    Further flipping the script - I could easily take a city bus and ride three miles north of me where I'd be in a neighborhood of an entirely different social class. I doubt that many of my takes about America would go over well in such an area - at least not publicly where people are forced to comply to society's "norm" in order to prevent suffering asset loss. But even up in that rarified area? My takes on the American Health Care Industry are creeping up the social ladder even to that level...….amazing but true. With the continued deterioration of US living standards for the bulk of the US population, I'd love to have this chat with you in ten to twenty years from now and see whether or not you'd consider my takes "odd" - but for the record I take no offense that you see my takes this way. Takes are in the eye of the beholder, tinged to some degree by personality, life experiences, whether a person has had a chance to travel and comparison shop, and by social class. I understand all of this. Rob

    PS I came back to give an example of my activism in high school and what form it took. My Senior Year I was on the school paper and one day we basically had nothing to do as the current issue of the paper had gone to the printer and we had down time. I was trying to get a full time job at Montgomery Wards selling shoes and was using a typewriter in class to create a resume. The teacher went over to me and turned the typewriter off and said, very rudely - I did not say that you could use this.

    To which I replied, Mrs. Poarch - A). I asked you yesterday if I could use a class typewriter to make a resume and you said yes since today was going to be downtime, B). I am not middle class nor upper middle class as the rest of this room is and I don't have access to a typewriter at home, and C). Would you like me to sign a referral note to the office here and now, and D). Certainly you are under no legal obligation to allow me to use this typewriter but it does smack of social class discrimination - in the sense that everyone else but I in this classroom has easy access to a typewriter. I am not of that social class and I don't see any reason I should suffer for it here. Can you give me one sane reason why America and yourself should deny me such access on a downtime day?

    To her credit. though she became red faced and muttered under her breath, she did not escalate the issue, and to give her more credit, she seemed to let it go after that day. I am ultra perceptive to shifts in attitude and I never felt any attitude shift from her towards me after this day. Towards the end of my Senior Year I believe I discovered why. I stayed late one day working on the last edition of the paper when she broke off into a story of how she'd had her economic challenges in life too when she was young. Gotta say I really respected her after this, combined with the lack of perception shift most would dole out after my standing up to an instructor.

    So I was a bit mouthy, yes, but really? Only when confronted with the fact that I was not middle class or higher and lacked access to much of what my classmates did not lack access to. I hope I've made myself clear here. I was not picketing and protesting then with signs and large groups - I was a one individual show. Rob
    Last edited by gimmethesimplelife; 4-13-19 at 2:51pm.

  7. #7
    Senior Member herbgeek's Avatar
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    First there's the men's rights/pretty much lack of men's rights men are expected to face if employed at a certain level and married.
    Right. Because being a women in the 50's/early 60's was such a picnic. You want a career? Too bad, women belong in the kitchen. You have brains and ambition? Why can't you be content running this bake sale? You don't like/want to have children? Too bad, you get 3 or 4 whether you want them or not. Gave up your career to be married? Too bad your husband is banging his secretary. You'll just have to suck up your dignity, because you have no other options in life to support yourself.

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    Senior Member JaneV2.0's Avatar
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    I'm not sure where this disdain for women comes from--from you or from any man. It's not hard--or shouldn't be--to avoid "gold-digging" women, or women entirely, if you like. (Predatory women and predatory men often pair up, to the relief of most of us.) Clinging to a man for financial security was pretty much the only choice women had a few decades ago (as herbgeek pointed out). I've paid my own way ever since I became "woke" in my twenties. All or nothing thinking isn't productive, IMO.

  9. #9
    Senior Member gimmethesimplelife's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by herbgeek View Post
    Right. Because being a women in the 50's/early 60's was such a picnic. You want a career? Too bad, women belong in the kitchen. You have brains and ambition? Why can't you be content running this bake sale? You don't like/want to have children? Too bad, you get 3 or 4 whether you want them or not. Gave up your career to be married? Too bad your husband is banging his secretary. You'll just have to suck up your dignity, because you have no other options in life to support yourself.
    I'm not saying you don't have a point here - you do. I grant you that here and now. And I don't support one iota that world where a woman did not have options. It's great that women have their own options, their own money, and their own power. I mean this. Are we so far on the same page?

    Where we differ (I'm guessing?) is that I don't believe that a woman should be able to ruin a man's life via a false allegation - I'm for a ten year prison sentence in this case, regardless of gender - and yes, the few men that pull this deserve prison, too - but unlike women, in such cases, men are prosecuted. Women rarely are, hence the need for laws requiring prison. I'm not the slightest bit down with women being sentenced on average to 60% less time than a man for similar crimes. I'm not down with men losing 1/2 their stuff for cohabitating with a woman for too long - and the woman in question seeking payday (and yes, this happens every day all over America), and then moving on to the next man, attempting to pull the same while youth is on her side. I'm not down with men being imprisoned for being unable to pay child support through no fault of their own if losing a job, once again through no fault of their own such as in a layoff. WTH kind of country is this for allowing such to happen and why should ANY man ever father a child given such vulnerability?

    Are you sensing a theme here? This autobahn goes two ways and men are getting fed up with the appalling vulnerability they face in the eyes of women and in the eyes of Family Courts and the law in general. Men are fed up with women hitting them and when they call the police, the police automatically arrest the man even though the man did nothing. WTH? Why would any man care to hold citizenship in a country where this is normal and widespread? Men are fed up with having no say in reproduction whatsoever - just the bills from such. Nope. Men are waking up and walking away.

    It's true that in the Mad Men era you refer to that men held all the power. Now women do - and they are just as abusive with it as men were in the past - even more so, in my mind, as the games some women play can end in a criminal record for a man that is lifelong and completely undeserved as the conviction is often based on a lie - gee, sign me up for that vulnerability. What should scare women a bit is that men are waking up more and more to this every day and walking away from the whole rigged game. It really and truly is stacked against men now, much as the era you refer to was stacked against women. I still maintain that today's era is worse as there are women who have no hesitation at all in lying about a man and ruining his life with a bogus lifelong lifetime altering criminal conviction - and once discovered, such women face no consequences whatsoever. Seriously, I'd be all for women paying say 5% higher taxes for a fund for such male victims to be started for new lives in one of the many better countries, to put this country and this system that would do this to an innocent victim in these men's rear view mirror. Consider it a price tag of the ungodly awesome power women hold over men these days. \

    Not kind words, no, but reality often is not kind and all I have to dish out on this topic is the male reality side of it. I could go on and on - there are many, many, many other legit grievances men hold towards women these days but I believe I've hit the main ones. And yes, I do believe that not all women are like this - the problem is is that any women can pull this at any time on a man and there is no way to know when or if it will happen. I'd never sign up for such vulnerability - the only positive I can see in this is the offhand chance of political asylum in another country to start over - but it won't be in a feminist first world country. Take Canada, Australia, Britain, Spain and Israel - the last two being the worst examples - these issues are even worse there. This is one of those rare cases when something awful is happening in the English speaking world and America is not the worst offender - Canada and Australia and England are even worse. A minor comfort but for how long will this last?

    Now how do we solve this? I'm not seeing any way out other than a continued mass exodus of younger men from society and for some awful kind of societal reset. And then still there have been so many men burned that I'm not sure such would change this inevitable consequence of making male lives vulnerable to instant destruction with a simple 911 call and a lie. I'd say in this lifetime in the developed world it's game over, especially as things get worse over time in this area and more men just realize it's not worth it. But regardless, I'm still glad that women have their own power and their own money and their own trajectory in life - just get used to not sharing it with a life partner is my advice, though once again, I'm glad society has evolved to allow you not to be dependent on a man. Now we need society to evolve to where men's rights matter as much as your rights do. Case in point - why the uproar over breast cancer and the crickets on prostate cancer, hmmmmmm????? I've yet to hear of a woman who understood that prostate cancer is real and an issue and that such deserves merit and notice just as much as breast cancer does. Crickets from the opposite sex - do you really believe that men are not noticing this? Honestly, do women really believe men don't date and time stamp such affronts? My mind reels on this one, it really does. Rob

    PS Came back to add - what really needs to happen is genuine equality between the sexes. The era you refer to was not one of equality, nor is this one. Until something remotely resembling equality arrives, and while men are still so appalling vulnerable to the opposite sex, expect more and more men to bail on traditional roles and I say more power to them, just as much as I say more power to successful women with their own money and their own trajectory. Rob

  10. #10
    Senior Member JaneV2.0's Avatar
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    And rape is widely unreported, and men kill their partners at terrifying rates. Life can be ugly and unfair. Nothing new there. But when you confine yourself to an echo chamber, I guess you don't hear any of that.

    And I'm well aware that prostate cancer is a menace. I lost my SO to it just a year ago. You've yet to hear of a woman who knows that? You need to get out more.

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