Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 40

Thread: Willoughby......

  1. #11
    Senior Member gimmethesimplelife's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    6,686
    Quote Originally Posted by JaneV2.0 View Post
    I'm not sure where this disdain for women comes from--from you or from any man. It's not hard--or shouldn't be--to avoid "gold-digging" women, or women entirely, if you like. (Predatory women and predatory men often pair up, to the relief of most of us.) Clinging to a man for financial security was pretty much the only choice women had a few decades ago (as herbgeek pointed out). I've paid my own way ever since I became "woke" in my twenties. All or nothing thinking isn't productive, IMO.
    The problem is that not all women are like this, Jane, I will give you that here and now. But too many are and too many men have been burned for no sane or legal reason whatsoever. I know of nine just from my high school class and there are more in the same class that have too but they are not living locally and so do not participate in this group other than by email. What we need to do is to get rid of no fault divorce laws AND make it harder to marry in the first place.....it's too easy for a woman these days to feel "bored" or "unloved" and cash in on her marriage for 50% or more......for no real reason whatsoever. It happens every day all around this country to the great support of the Family Court System, The American Legal Industry, and The American Divorce Industry. Just because you are not a woman who would pull this and may have a hard time relating due to this does not mean it's not happening. It most certainly is. Things need to change or the marriage rates will continue their deep plunge and children will be the province of immigrants only and their children will not have kids once they Westernize - the risks for at least men are too great these days. The second generation will have learned this. Rob

  2. #12
    Senior Member gimmethesimplelife's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    6,686
    Quote Originally Posted by JaneV2.0 View Post
    And rape is widely unreported, and men kill their partners at terrifying rates. Life can be ugly and unfair. Nothing new there. But when you confine yourself to an echo chamber, I guess you don't hear any of that.

    And I'm well aware that prostate cancer is a menace. I lost my SO to it just a year ago. You've yet to hear of a woman who knows that? You need to get out more.
    Jane, a serious question for you...when was the last time you heard of a well funded prostate cancer organization such as the Susan Kormen organization for breast cancer? When was the last time you heard of a march for prostate cancer or fundraising activities for prostate cancer? I don't mean to be rude or difficult here, I really don't. My answer is I'm not aware of the above any time recently. The problem is, this issue is not limited to only prostate cancer. Men's issues are swept under the rug routinely in America and the focus is much more on women - it's called gynocentrism. I'm down fully with women being completely 100% equal to men - equality in this one instance being either men get the same awareness in society of prostate cancer OR breast cancer becomes the trivial issue to society that prostate cancer has been relegated to. Pick one or the other.....that would be equality. What we have now is not - the fact that I can see this means nothing. What would worry me if I were female is that more and more men are waking up to this every day......and due to the Internet, men are much more able to converse amongst themselves regarding these realities than they used to be. Online there is no female control of who their male partner hangs around with and there is no way to manipulate a man with this message out of the partner's life - something I've heard that the women in the guy's lives in this group have all pulled. In other words, any hindrances to a man knowing/absorbing this are going to be much more someone's unwillingness to give up the pleasant fiction (social conditioning) they have been raised with. Rob

    PS Men do kill more women than women kill men. Statistics will bear you out on this. Two points, however....women (at noticeably lower rates, admitted) do the same, and men are much, much, much, much, much less likely than women to lie - either to get a man fired from a job or to get a man arrested to get him out of her life and to make further legal proceedings against such a man much smoother for herself. All it takes is a landline, or a cell phone and a lie........the police auto believe a woman, even when there is evidence to the contrary right in front of them. Once again, scary for women, more and more men are waking up to this.

    I don't advocate a return to the Mad Men era. I support genuine equality and not the cherry picked equality/actual non-equality for men that we have today. Rob

  3. #13
    Senior Member JaneV2.0's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    15,489
    As long as you associate with a bunch of misogynists sitting around awash in their own anger--justified or not--you'll miss the fact that there's plenty of "life isn't fair" stuff on either side.

    ETA: The reason breast cancer has its own month is that it's a big, big money maker. Women are notoriously underrepresented in drug trials, untreated for heart issues, etc. As usual, there's another side to the story.

  4. #14
    Senior Member gimmethesimplelife's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    6,686
    Quote Originally Posted by JaneV2.0 View Post
    As long as you associate with a bunch of misogynists sitting around awash in their own anger--justified or not--you'll miss the fact that there's plenty of "life isn't fair" stuff on either side.
    Jane, with all due respect, I consider these gentlemen to some degree to be victims and I have yet to hear anything misogynistic coming from them. The facts of their lives, and the consequences these guys have had to endure springing forth from lies from women once in their lives - that is not misogyny. That is the brutal reality of the women these men had paired with. Now, it takes two to tango, this is true, and I'm not getting the female angle on this, that's true too. Some of these ladies struck so low in court - I can't see any realistic excuse for their behavior and that's not misogyny. That's me being a caring, compassionate person towards another suffering human being. In this case the sufferers in question are male - NEWS FLASH FOR SOCIETY AT LARGE - Yes, men suffer, too. And what might be getting scary for women - men are now seeing women as being a risk for future suffering or a cause of suffering overall - this does not bode well for heterosexual relationships going forward, and even though I don't bat on that team, I do understand that heterosexual relationships are necessary to produce the offspring for future generations.

    I see the future becoming very funky for women, truth be told, as they are not going to get their Disney Prince Charming fantasy. Men will cope as men don't need social approval to the level women do and something I really do appreciate about being male applies here - one great advantage men have in life over women - men validate internally for the most part. It's true that some buy expensive watches or sports cars but most men? Validation is an internal concept. This is something I am very much grateful for. What this means in this case? Once the typical man wakes up to these issues, he's not going to care what anyone thinks of his being partner free or what anyone thinks of his life choices/how he deems fit to conduct his life. Such makes it easier for men to be alone. Rob
    Last edited by gimmethesimplelife; 4-13-19 at 6:26pm.

  5. #15
    Senior Member gimmethesimplelife's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    6,686
    Something else I'm going to bring up that absolutely stuns me regarding male/female relations in the workplace......granted this is a sense I'm getting online and not so much IRL so I won't hold as fast to what I am about to post. My sense is that women in general (and I've run across exceptions to this online so yes, I know they do exist)...I'm talking flat average here - seem to be very taken aback with the consequences of the metoo movement. In other words, men refusing to talk to women in the workplace other than for work related reasons and then as briefly as possible (forget any office geniality or warmth, consider this Gone With the MeTooMovement)...women seem surprised that men will not get into an elevator with them, that they insist on not being seated next to a woman on a business trip, that men will not meet with them informally for an (innocent and business related) drink/convo outside of work. Forget any mentoring, that went Gone With The MeTooMovement, too.

    I've read of some women online unhappy with the MeToo Movement having ever taken place as their perception is that metoo cemented the glass ceiling for them as they can't really access male higher ups (I'm talking strictly for business reasons here) and believe their probability of being promoted is now less due to Senior Level people never even knowing who they are, due to fear of affiliation/association with said woman in the workplace.

    I can honestly say that I've cut back on workplace warmth myself and though the women I work with in management are professional, I keep things short and sweet and work related and have become quite skilled at deflecting any personal questions back to work related issues. The few times this has not worked I've civilly stated that this is a place of work and I'm not comfortable speaking of non work related matters here. I've also called the temp office's corporate office hq in LA and told them of the incident - just to protect myself. It's also smart to be the first one to call HR - this is not a male way of handling this, I'll grant that, but.....what works, works. Men who have called HR first are much more likely to save their job, either via thinly veiled insinuations of litigation or just via having the audacity to care about themselves and respect themselves enough to do so.

    Women who have lied about men and then men who have proof of a female co-workers lies via a recording device - genuinely seem STUNNED that a man would pull this - literally as if a man's livelihood and if it is to continue is 100% up to the same level female employee that lied to begin with. Seriously, I've read of several women online that seem to be of the mind that it's OK for her to lie but it's not OK for the man to protect himself and expose her lie(s). And then women wonder why more and more men are going mgtow.......the mind reels, at least mine does, on this one.

    And then what of the women that are not like this? Many men's rights activists believe all women are like this but I don't. Much as not all men would engage in domestic violence, not all women are going to stoop to such behavior. The problem here? There are no real checks and balances on a woman pulling this as society stands today and women know this. It is entirely up to an individual woman if she will pull these games or not - some will, some won't. Under these conditions, men are going to be thinking in terms of self preservation and economic survival. Thank metoo for this - though I'd also agree once again I advocate in no way for a return to women not having their own money and their own power.......I'm all about true equality and legal checks and balances (and consequences) for women who do indeed stoop to this behavior.

    One last thing - ironically enough, gay men at the onset were the co-creators of this movement. Some names to google if interested - Jack Donovan of Portland, Oregon, and Milo (his last name is Greek and starts with a Y and he's very much a symbol of the movement). Funky. I would likely never have gotten involved in this if I hadn't met up with these guys from my past and heard their stories. I don't feel very good about this fact but it is what it is. I'm doing what little I can as always, you know? This is not my only cause but it is gaining in importance to me. Rob

  6. #16
    Senior Member catherine's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Vermont
    Posts
    14,637
    Quote Originally Posted by gimmethesimplelife View Post

    I see the future becoming very funky for women, truth be told, as they are not going to get their Disney Prince Charming fantasy.
    This doesn't compute for me. I know that there are gold-diggers or whatever, but the days are long gone when women had to marry in order to have financial security. Many (maybe most) states have 50/50 property rights in the case of divorce, and if you don't like it, don't marry. There is no Prince Charming. The women in my circles know that. I, like Jane, have prized my independence, and too often both men and women enter into marriages with blinders on. Both men and women can be burned, but that's life.
    "Do any human beings ever realize life while they live it--every, every minute?" Emily Webb, Our Town
    www.silententry.wordpress.com

  7. #17
    Senior Member JaneV2.0's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    15,489
    I wonder how receptive most men would be to the infantilization that comes with the Komen Foundation and their much-ballyhooed "cancer cures." I think not much. My beloved wouldn't have given a second look to such a thing. BTW, I believe it was a new, untested drug that ultimately took his life; be careful what you wish for.

    Milo Y is a persona non grata nearly everywhere on earth at this point. Like many of his ilk, he seems to have unlimited amounts of hatred to spread around.

    You have considerable passion; the world would be a better place if you'd find a positive outlet for it.

  8. #18
    Senior Member gimmethesimplelife's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    6,686
    Quote Originally Posted by catherine View Post
    This doesn't compute for me. I know that there are gold-diggers or whatever, but the days are long gone when women had to marry in order to have financial security. Many (maybe most) states have 50/50 property rights in the case of divorce, and if you don't like it, don't marry. There is no Prince Charming. The women in my circles know that. I, like Jane, have prized my independence, and too often both men and women enter into marriages with blinders on. Both men and women can be burned, but that's life.
    This may be due to being older and having life experience under our belts......I know as a gay man there is no Prince Charming and I also believe that you know there is no such man, too. The problem then? As I see it part of the problem is the feminized education system in America and the girl power thing of the 90's and how in general, public education in America is geared towards female learning styles and not male learning styles (should the balance of power ever shift between men and women in this country in our lifetimes, I'm just waiting for the hundreds of thousands of lawsuits surrounding this issue)......young girls were treated as if princesses and told they could have it all and who can blame them, really, and I do mean this.....who can blame them for expecting a Prince Charming after being preferred in the educational system for years and held up as an example to follow? Who can blame them for expecting the sun and the moon when they were told all along the way they could have it all and that men were their enemies to some degree, standing in their way?

    I'd also like to state that I am not a misogynist (though unfortunately, many women are not going to agree with me here.....just standing up for men in general is enough to be branded with this word these days and I'm starting to consider it a compliment....not the word itself but the fact that often when I have been called this I have known inside 100% that my heart was in the right place). I am no enemy to women. I don't wish to have them barefoot and pregnant in any room of any house. I don't begrudge women their progress the past 50 years. So, what's the problem, you ask? Things currently are NOT equal and this is very much at the expense of men. I have issues with that and if that makes me misogynistic, I'll go and have the t shirt made up and wear it proudly.....men too are worth equality. This street goes two ways.

    But I also very much agree with your last sentence, Catherine. Both men and women can be burned, and such is life. It's just that currently the deck is stacked against men at the preference of women (go to any Family Court proceeding in the United States any day such a court is open and see for yourself)...the deck is stacked against men in the Western World much like the deck is stacked against the American worker.

    I also believe most men other than true misogynists (a word that has really been cheapened with it's being hurled at men to whom the word does not realistically apply) men in general would not want women to go back to the 1950's, nor be subservient or dependent on them. Men just are sick of being blamed for everything, they are tired of fear of false allegations/hypersensitivity to the most innocent of comments, they are sick of getting the bad end of the deal in divorces (called frivorces these days if any ladies here are not yet familiar with the term)....they are just sick of the appalling vulnerability that they face these days in terms of dealings with the opposite sex.

    Here's a way to put it that maybe ladies can understand......women overall became sick in the 60's and 70's of the appalling vulnerability they faced from men and the feminist movement with it's progress in women's rights was launched. Hooray and I don't mean this snarkily. Ladies, here's the rub. Whether you agree with this or not, many men today feel they face appalling vulnerability from women. Are we not worth the right to a movement the same as you were? AND IF YOUR ANSWER IS NO - please explain to me - and every other American male btw - your definition of equality....if your answer is no, the world is not going to end and the sun will rise and bills in your name will still come that need to be paid.......but don't be surprised that further alienation of the opposite sex is the result. Rob
    Last edited by gimmethesimplelife; 4-13-19 at 6:31pm.

  9. #19
    Senior Member gimmethesimplelife's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    6,686
    Quote Originally Posted by JaneV2.0 View Post
    I wonder how receptive most men would be to the infantilization that comes with the Komen Foundation and their much-ballyhooed "cancer cures." I think not much. My beloved wouldn't have given a second look to such a thing. BTW, I believe it was a new, untested drug that ultimately took his life; be careful what you wish for.

    Milo Y is a persona non grata nearly everywhere on earth at this point. Like many of his ilk, he seems to have unlimited amounts of hatred to spread around.

    You have considerable passion; the world would be a better place if you'd find a positive outlet for it.
    Jane, breaking free from this serious discussion for a moment...if I may. Thank You for your compliment here. That was very kind of you, especially in light of the controversial topic we are discussing. Rob

  10. #20
    Senior Member JaneV2.0's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    15,489
    ...But zealots can be insufferable...

    My mother always thought Ralph Nader would be a good match for me (why do you hate me, Mom?)

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •