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Thread: How did your taxes turn out?

  1. #91
    Senior Member iris lilies's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teacher Terry View Post
    Yes Steve people don’t really think about what catastrophic events happen to people and what type of expenses/care you could end up needing. Depending on charity to fill that need is ridiculous.
    Can either of you, Steve or Terry, tell me who, exactly, are the people on this thread who “really dont think about what catastrophic events happen to people” or who thinks the “government shouldn't provide a safety net?”

    Since I have said neither of these things, you cant be speaking to me. Most Americans, including me, think those who cannot care for themselves need to be cared for in some way through government help.

  2. #92
    Simpleton Alan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iris lilies View Post
    Since I have said neither of these things, you cant be speaking to me. Most Americans, including me, think those who cannot care for themselves need to be cared for in some way through government help.
    I think they're referring to me, because even though I believe in a government safety net, I think the primary responsibility should be on family and public charities. I'm old fashioned that way.
    "Things should be made as simple as possible, but not one bit simpler." ~ Albert Einstein

  3. #93
    Senior Member SteveinMN's Avatar
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    I think I pretty clearly explained a situation in which family cannot provide the necessary care for someone and I wrote another post on why public charity support is problematic. What I do not see is any discussion about how public charities could replace the comprehensiveness and democratic access to infrastructure that the government provides. My personal suspicion is that the discussion doesn't happen because it cannot. Great talking point; not so easy when it gets to specifics.

    So, Alan (or anyone else who cares to respond), please, enlighten me. How would you have public charities help my relative and his family since he cannot help himself and family support is limited? Detail is a good thing. Consider the need for personal cares; adaptation of where he lives to allow movement and use of equipment like a hospital bed, a Hoyer lift, and an accessibility ramp; and medical care. Feel free to include the meager amount he receives from a private disability insurance policy he was lucky enough to receive at the beginning of his career. Thanks.
    Success is to be measured not so much by the position that one has reached in life as by the obstacles which he has overcome. - Booker T. Washington

  4. #94
    Senior Member jp1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan View Post
    I think they're referring to me, because even though I believe in a government safety net, I think the primary responsibility should be on family and public charities. I'm old fashioned that way.
    For people in favor of rugged individualism I suppose gofundme is a pretty good modern version of that. According to the company a third of the money raised on that site is for medical bills.

    Of course that's probably not a particularly effective solution for people who can't afford ongoing maintenance drugs like insulin. One dramatically large hospital bill may inspire lots of sympathy and donations. A monthly plea for money to pay for something like insulin or blood pressure meds, probably not so much.

  5. #95
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    So Alan do you have enough money saved to take care of everyone in your extended family that might need help without programs? Do you want these people living with you? My mom talked about the depression and taking family in whether you liked them or not and struggled to feed everyone and living in a small space. No programs to help and they sucked it up and did it. My grandparents were generous and kind people but it wasn’t easy. I don’t want to live with my siblings or support them. If I had to plan for that I would never retire. They feel the same.

  6. #96
    Simpleton Alan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teacher Terry View Post
    I don't want to live with my siblings or support them. If I had to plan for that I would never retire. They feel the same.
    Therein the problem lies.
    "Things should be made as simple as possible, but not one bit simpler." ~ Albert Einstein

  7. #97
    Senior Member razz's Avatar
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    I struggle to understand the individualism mindset and protection of the 'common'. They seem to be in conflict. If I remember correctly some societies shared a common field to grow their food and shared the results of the efforts. Those who could not help physically were assisted and reciprocated where and when able.

    What I see now is the individualism that places the responsibilities for obtaining the revenue, purchasing and maintaining shelter, food and aid on those individuals who are able. If only a few are able and available, they carry the whole burden. Those who were able and now unable are suddenly without support for themselves and their dependents. What happened to the shared common? Is this not the role of gov't in action?
    Gandhi: Happiness is when what you think, what you say and what you do are in harmony .

  8. #98
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    It’s not a problem. We don’t get along. Do you get along with everyone in your family? Do you have the money to support everyone in your extended family? Would you let people you can’t get along live with you? Since my mom lived it as a child I will take her word for it that it sucked. Life was tougher back then and I am glad to be living now.

  9. #99
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    The problem is we can't all be some super woman/man, pulling in vast incredible almost unfathomable incomes to support not just ourselves but extended families etc. (yes you need to pull in a lot for that). Sometimes it's a struggle enough to keep one's own head above water Sometimes I think about saving everyone else and only think "it will kill me" and then only: they are not my responsibility How is this going to lead to anything but the one responsible person in a family maybe supporting a bunch of deadbeats or at least unfortunates (with tons of health problems etc.) if they even can (responsible hardly means rich, afterall! but again rich is what is needed) But even deadbeats and unfortunates who have bad health shouldn't die of treatable illness and sleeping in the gutter.

    Nor do we all have the time to be full time caretakers and work full time jobs (impossible really)

    I don't care how my grandparents lived because life back then doesn't even map to life today Uh they lived rent free in order to caretake their grandparents and then got a paid off house for it at the end (never having paid a mortgage). No magic genie is offering to pay my rent or give me a house. Plus my grandmother didn't work full time, actually didn't work for many years despite having a law degree! How realistic do you think that is now? So my grandparents are good memories mostly, I loved their old house etc., but it could not be more irrelevant to anything in the present.

    I agree gofundme is the modern equivalent, it is completely in the modern world, but as a way of paying medical bills leaves a lot to be desired, and probably doesn't keep anyone much out of homelessness etc..
    If you want something to get done, ask a busy person. If you want them to have a nervous breakdown that is.

  10. #100
    Simpleton Alan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teacher Terry View Post
    It’s not a problem. We don’t get along. Do you get along with everyone in your family? Do you have the money to support everyone in your extended family? Would you let people you can’t get along live with you? Since my mom lived it as a child I will take her word for it that it sucked. Life was tougher back then and I am glad to be living now.
    And that's where I think the government should come in as a last resort, for those who would otherwise be put adrift on the ice floe.
    "Things should be made as simple as possible, but not one bit simpler." ~ Albert Einstein

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