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Thread: Climate Dysphoria

  1. #11
    Senior Member catherine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CathyA View Post
    Yes, climate change and a host of other human behaviors and choices depresses the heck out of me. It truly seems that humans really don't fit on this earth. For whatever the reason........our behavior seems to be unlike anything else on this earth. What plant or animal would constantly try to destroy it's own life support system?

    What an incredible planet this is with it's it's natural plants, animals, climate and perfect balance, but man continues to try to destroy it all. I guess I don't think too highly of mankind. Are we "naturally" greedy, selfish, constantly unsatisfied with everything, to the destruction of everything else around us? Yes, I'm totally bummed most of the time.
    I do not believe humans are inherently greedy, because there is a lot of evidence that other tribes/cultures are far more cooperative. I can't remember where I saw it, but someone did an experiment with a bunch of indigenous kids. They all sat in a circle and someone put candy in the middle and said whoever got to it first could have it. I can't remember exactly what happened--either the kids all sat there and didn't move, or they moved toward the center in unison, but it showed that no one of them wanted to be a "winner" at the expense of their friends.

    One of Erich Fromm's books talks about the toll the Protestant Reformation had on the culture in terms of the relationship between work and grace. Can't remember that book, either. (I need to take better notes!). But it propelled human culture into the mode of "productivity" at all costs. And that generated a culture of competition, capitalism and Ayn Rand-style objectivism

    There are people out there-some inspired by E.F. Schumacher--who believe that a negative growth would be most beneficial for us now. I'm not going to hold my breath in hopes that that will happen any time soon unless it's by accident or some cataclysmic event.
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  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by JaneV2.0 View Post
    I'm a boomer who won't vote for Biden until I have no choice (I don't personally know any Biden stalwarts). I'm reduced to writing letters and emails and sending campaign contributions (as well as doing my small part personally to shore up the environment), but it's true many of us are approaching our pull dates, so we look to the likes of Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez and others to take up the fight.
    Like you, I plan on voting for someone who has a chance to win over the current moron in office. I don't think anyone could be worse than Trump. He has done irreparable damage to many laws that were in place for the environment and safety of workers (plus much more). I just hope people vote who they think can win and not necessarily who they like the best. The best thing that could happen IMO is that somehow Trump is expelled from office!!

  3. #13
    Senior Member JaneV2.0's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by catherine View Post
    I do not believe humans are inherently greedy, because there is a lot of evidence that other tribes/cultures are far more cooperative. I can't remember where I saw it, but someone did an experiment with a bunch of indigenous kids. They all sat in a circle and someone put candy in the middle and said whoever got to it first could have it. I can't remember exactly what happened--either the kids all sat there and didn't move, or they moved toward the center in unison, but it showed that no one of them wanted to be a "winner" at the expense of their friends.

    One of Erich Fromm's books talks about the toll the Protestant Reformation had on the culture in terms of the relationship between work and grace. Can't remember that book, either. (I need to take better notes!). But it propelled human culture into the mode of "productivity" at all costs. And that generated a culture of competition, capitalism and Ayn Rand-style objectivism

    There are people out there-some inspired by E.F. Schumacher--who believe that a negative growth would be most beneficial for us now. I'm not going to hold my breath in hopes that that will happen any time soon unless it's by accident or some cataclysmic event.
    So well put.
    Those in charge have a vested interest in keeping the peasants striving.

  4. #14
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    I will vote for anyone that can beat the present imbecile.

  5. #15
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    By what basis would anyone possibly have any idea who could win? Does one read it in their astrology forecast, or ask their palm reader? Does one play the ouija board? Is it just some vibe from whom one's friends and family like? Because that's a surely a valid way to determine right? Because I've never seen any RATIONAL basis for determining this. I've never heard a rational argument made for being able to make that type of prediction. People thought Trump couldn't win, Hillary Clinton herself though Trump couldn't win and it was her preferred opposition. How did that work out?

    Even polls have been very biased, and the polls we have are polls of Dems who might vote for whomever the nominee was anyway, and who themselves may be thinking they have some magic means of determining who will win and thus not even voting for their true preference. And then in the general many of those votes won't matter, because in the general who really cares who a Dem voter in CA prefers, or one in a solid republican state?

    There are those who are convinced Biden is who can win (despite lots of baggage that make this seem pretty questionable and not much base of support under 40 or 50). There are those absolutely convinced that Bernie Sanders is the only candidate who can win (has some real baggage with Dems, but passionate followers and is respected for consistency - and passionate followers are what you need to get out the vote to win many have argued. a "meh" candidate won't have people canvasing and working the phone banks or maybe even going to the polls?). Maybe Buttigieg? Shiny and new, so no baggage, a bit weak on experience but not compared to Trump. Kamala Harris? Or none of them or any of them? I guess one might be a bit safer with a white male than a diversity candidate? Hmm but Obama did win. But maybe a woman is risky? We've never had a women president so that would tend to imply the odds of one winning are low?

    When I say Biden as the nominee makes me despair beyond despair, so we're talking about climate change, are we aware Biden has family in the fossil fuel industry? Because he does. Votes aren't going to save us, but they could just fast forward our demise.
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  6. #16
    Senior Member JaneV2.0's Avatar
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    Don't forget to factor in the Russians, voting machine/voter rolls tampering, voter suppression, and threats not yet evident.

  7. #17
    Senior Member Rogar's Avatar
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    I am not the most optimistic person on the subject, but times are changing. Thinking back to the debates between Hillary and the orange man I don't think climate change was even mentioned. Now it's becoming a major platform issue. I don't think politicians can fix all that is wrong, but a time may come when the economics of weather extremes or flooded coasts or crop failures will hit people in their wallets more. I think we are living in something of a golden time of material abundance that may not last much longer.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by ApatheticNoMore View Post
    By what basis would anyone possibly have any idea who could win? Does one read it in their astrology forecast, or ask their palm reader? Does one play the ouija board? Is it just some vibe from whom one's friends and family like? Because that's a surely a valid way to determine right? Because I've never seen any RATIONAL basis for determining this. I've never heard a rational argument made for being able to make that type of prediction. People thought Trump couldn't win, Hillary Clinton herself though Trump couldn't win and it was her preferred opposition. How did that work out?

    Even polls have been very biased, and the polls we have are polls of Dems who might vote for whomever the nominee was anyway, and who themselves may be thinking they have some magic means of determining who will win and thus not even voting for their true preference. And then in the general many of those votes won't matter, because in the general who really cares who a Dem voter in CA prefers, or one in a solid republican state?

    There are those who are convinced Biden is who can win (despite lots of baggage that make this seem pretty questionable and not much base of support under 40 or 50). There are those absolutely convinced that Bernie Sanders is the only candidate who can win (has some real baggage with Dems, but passionate followers and is respected for consistency - and passionate followers are what you need to get out the vote to win many have argued. a "meh" candidate won't have people canvasing and working the phone banks or maybe even going to the polls?). Maybe Buttigieg? Shiny and new, so no baggage, a bit weak on experience but not compared to Trump. Kamala Harris? Or none of them or any of them? I guess one might be a bit safer with a white male than a diversity candidate? Hmm but Obama did win. But maybe a woman is risky? We've never had a women president so that would tend to imply the odds of one winning are low?

    When I say Biden as the nominee makes me despair beyond despair, so we're talking about climate change, are we aware Biden has family in the fossil fuel industry? Because he does. Votes aren't going to save us, but they could just fast forward our demise.
    Trump makes me despair. He dropped out of the Climate Change pact that the US initiated. He keeps talking that climate change is fake news. He has deregulated so many safety and environmental laws. He NEEDS to be gone!

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rogar View Post
    I am not the most optimistic person on the subject, but times are changing. Thinking back to the debates between Hillary and the orange man I don't think climate change was even mentioned. Now it's becoming a major platform issue. I don't think politicians can fix all that is wrong, but a time may come when the economics of weather extremes or flooded coasts or crop failures will hit people in their wallets more. I think we are living in something of a golden time of material abundance that may not last much longer.

    The abundance of food may not be much longer either. Climate is changing the way food can be grown. Saw an article recently that the local coop could not even get local greens because of all the rains and weird weather. Scary on how this is going to end.

  10. #20
    Senior Member CathyA's Avatar
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    This morning on CBS Saturday, Jeffrey Kluger had a segment that depressed me even more.
    And even if our own country turned things around.........how do you turn other continents around, after they've learned how to want more and use more plastics, chemicals, etc?

    I bought a book several years ago, which I had trouble reading because of my eyes jumping around, but what I could get through was interesting. It's titled "The World Without Us". I guess what he envisions as the world without humans, is about the only consolation I might have. He wants to believe in nature's incredibly ability to heal.......even with all our previous sh*t around. I know I sound very pessimistic, but humans have taught me to be so.
    Here's the CBS segment.

    https://www.cbsnews.com/video/the-mo...tatistics-from https://www.cbsnews.com/video/the-mo...nction-report/
    I apologize for the commercials........I didn't know how to get rid of them. And I'm sorry if this depresses you more........but it's life in the fast lane, I guess.

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