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Thread: BP and LDL

  1. #21
    Senior Member SteveinMN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultralight View Post
    Are we talking about high LDL being bad for you or about statins being bad for you?
    High LDL can occur for a number of reasons unrelated to impending cardiovascular disease. People on low-carb or ketogenic eating plans typically have a lot more fat moving through their bodies because their bodies are burning fat, not carbohydrates, for the bulk of their energy needs. So, naturally, their LDL cholesterol measurement will be higher. In fact, it is fairly standard advice for people actively losing weight on LC/keto diets to wait until their weight has stabilized before reacting strongly to LDL levels that are considered "high" according to the typical standard of care (LDL of 100 or higher).

    I think the point being missed here is that the LDL number by itself is a poor measure of adverse potential cardiac outcomes. Medical science does not know fully why LDL levels increase. Several studies (not paid for by The National Egg Yolk Council ) now show that LDL levels are not tied to the amount of saturated fats or high-cholesterol foods people eat. There are studies showing that temporary high levels of blood glucose (even postprandial levels in people otherwise without issues like diabetes, metabolic syndrome, PCOS, etc.) seem to correlate with increased incidence of cardiovascular disease. And then there's the conundrum of why cardiovascular disease and high blood pressure and the like are on the rise despite the virtual eradication of trans fats and the continued presence of 100-calorie packets of carbohydrates -- maybe there's a causality but it sure doesn't look like fats are the bad guys there.

    Properly assessing the risk of heart disease, atherosclerosis, etc., requires looking at HDL levels and triglyceride levels at a minimum. In fact, current studies show that the ratio between LDL and triglycerides is a very good indicator of future cardiac problems -- much better than reacting to LDL levels alone. I believe that's why so many of us are advising caution in following medical advice that seems to be applied to blocks of people meeting very broad criteria (over 50 or with high blood pressure or with LDL levels above 100 or whatever). It seems unlikely that one factor is affecting the health of so many people so why key on that as a response?
    Success is to be measured not so much by the position that one has reached in life as by the obstacles which he has overcome. - Booker T. Washington

  2. #22
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    I am skeptical of the keto diet. But as for high LDL. I am only a a few points over the mark. So not terrible.

    And if I ate oatmeal more often or choked down more veggies I would probably be okay. Heck, if I just put down the fork a little earlier I'd likely drop a few elbeez and the LDL would be fine.

    But this is not science. I am not a nutritionist.

    I will be seeing a nutritionist again.

    My diet is not extreme in any way -- I still eat fish (oysters a couple times a month, maybe some other fish here and there). I get some dairy, like in Indian food, but only as an ingredient, not anywhere near the main attraction (unless I am on vacation, then I eat pizza, yeah!).

    I do struggle with overeating and with binges sometimes. But not eating meat and cutting out most dairy makes the overeating lesser and the binges less frequent.

  3. #23
    Senior Member rosarugosa's Avatar
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    I think pizza every day for 16 days is a bit extreme and not very healthy. That might have skewed your numbers, and perhaps once you get back to a more balanced diet your numbers will improve.

  4. #24
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    Woke up to and email from old sawbones. He is actually about 30 years old.

    Anyway, he said my numbers look good and not to worry about the slightly elevated LDL. He said to stick to my mostly plant-based diet and that it seems to be good for me.

  5. #25
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    Wait until you get over 65. Then they will tell you to be on BP and cholesterol meds.... no matter what your numbers are. I think it is mostly a money making racket!!!!

  6. #26
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    The total cholesterol picture is important.
    TOTAL=
    HDL=
    VLDL=

    When you get to see the actual report, it still gives the normal range to 240. And no, docs don't want to tell you that.

    Food intake over time affects cholesterol. What you ate in the prior 6-8 weeks before the blood draw. Some say up to 3 months. I always encourage people to wait 90 days for a blood draw after a lifestyle change.

    Exercise can impact as well so yes, the additional recommended walking can help.

    BP of 120/80 is still on the scale. More importantly the 80 unless your upper # is well over 140. Exercise, fish oils impact BP as well as CoQ10. This is a comprehensive Meta-study. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17287847

    I agree with no Statins for sure! The side effects are terrible. And the value? Hmmmmmm....and always remember, Dr Adkins himself: "details from Dr. Atkins's confidential medical report. The report concludes that Dr. Atkins, 72, had a history of heart attack and congestive heart failure and notes that he weighed 258 pounds at death."

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by frugal-one View Post
    Wait until you get over 65. Then they will tell you to be on BP and cholesterol meds.... no matter what your numbers are.
    While I appreciate your cynicism I am dubious of your claim.

  8. #28
    Senior Member herbgeek's Avatar
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    I recognize an anecdote is not data but, my spouse just turned 65 and his cholesterol is 147, and the doctor wanted to put him on a statin, just because of age (no family history, healthy weight, vegetarian).

  9. #29
    Senior Member JaneV2.0's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gardnr View Post
    The total cholesterol picture is important.
    TOTAL=
    HDL=
    VLDL=

    When you get to see the actual report, it still gives the normal range to 240. And no, docs don't want to tell you that.

    Food intake over time affects cholesterol. What you ate in the prior 6-8 weeks before the blood draw. Some say up to 3 months. I always encourage people to wait 90 days for a blood draw after a lifestyle change.

    Exercise can impact as well so yes, the additional recommended walking can help.

    BP of 120/80 is still on the scale. More importantly the 80 unless your upper # is well over 140. Exercise, fish oils impact BP as well as CoQ10. This is a comprehensive Meta-study. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17287847

    I agree with no Statins for sure! The side effects are terrible. And the value? Hmmmmmm....and always remember, Dr Adkins himself: "details from Dr. Atkins's confidential medical report. The report concludes that Dr. Atkins, 72, had a history of heart attack and congestive heart failure and notes that he weighed 258 pounds at death."
    I saw Dr. Atkins on the Larry King show not long before he died; he looked very good for a man his age. At death, it was found he had some damage to his heart due to a viral infection; before death, he had been pumped full of steroids because of his brain injury, causing fluid retention, erroneous vegan propaganda to the contrary. He played singles tennis regularly, and weighed about 200 at 6' or so, IIRC.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by herbgeek View Post
    I recognize an anecdote is not data but, my spouse just turned 65 and his cholesterol is 147, and the doctor wanted to put him on a statin, just because of age (no family history, healthy weight, vegetarian).
    I would ask the doctor a lot of critical questions and then politely decline the statin.

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