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Thread: Counter-examples of why Rob is wrong about cops.

  1. #1
    Senior Member Ultralight's Avatar
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    Counter-examples of why Rob is wrong about cops.

    Rob has been bothering me with his incessant rants against cops -- as though the vast majority of them are horrible, racist, violent demons in blue.

    So I created this thread where we can -- just to razz him -- post positive stories about cops.

    "Instead of arresting a woman accused of shoplifting, these NYPD officers paid for her meal"

    https://www.cnn.com/2019/07/05/us/ny...rnd/index.html

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    Yes, demonizing police is certainly not the answer. As someone with police in my family I am probably more sympathetic to them than most "liberals." I've known plenty of cops who are very decent guys. But I've also known some who were complete jerks. Especially when I was a small-town newspaper editor, I encountered plenty of cops who should not have been allowed within shouting distance of a firearm.

    Better recruiting and training would undoubtedly help. My uncle, who is a retired police lieutenant, likes to point out that in Germany, a cop must be a college graduate, who in addition to the police academy receives a full year of close supervision from an experienced officer when he goes on the street.

    I think a big part of the problem is plain fear. This country is so awash in every conceivable type of weapon that cops know any split second of hesitation could be their last. Sensible gun laws would help, although that genie is now so far out of the bottle that it might not make that much difference.

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    Senior Member iris lilies's Avatar
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    In the 30 years we’ve lived in our urban core, high crime, neighborhood we have had good relations with police officers.

    The most recent long-term relationship we ( DH and me plus any neighbors who are involved in our neighborhood) had was with Officer Brian M. He was assigned to our neighborhood for about eight years. He did his gig on foot, some of his gig on a scooter, and some in a patrol car. We always knew how to reach him via phone or email. Our neighborhood maintains a “substation” for Third district policemen with computer access, snacks, refrigerator, bathroom And this cost around $7000 annually. Officer Brian M. worked closely with our safety committee of the neighborhood.

    We had police appreciation events like picnics in our park or Super Bowl parties where neighborhood people contributed food and officers on the third district swing by during their breaks or their off days. Officer Brian M kept his Third district colleagues informed of the trouble spots in our neighborhood. He became close friends of our friends so he and his wife ended up coming to our neighborhood parties in his off time. I always thought he was pretty laid-back and friendly. He retired recently and the day he retired he let his hair grow and is now down to his shoulders. He is very cute.

    We had a similar relationship with Officer John L a few years prior. Officer John L was assigned to our neighborhood for several years and we developed that same close relationship. He was single! He was big and blond and a hunk, And we all wanted to set him up with a girlfriend. One of many incidents I remember with him was when our neighbor three doors down had something going on at their house, maybe it was a burglar alarm? I don’t remember exactly except it John check that situation over and then walked over to our house to askmhow to contact that neighbor. He knows people on every block, And that was the value in having neighborhood cops. They built relationships with citizens.

    Several years before that, with my friend being the police officer liaison, we had a neighborhood party at our house and the Third district commander came with his wife, and we got to know them on a casual basis. He ended up being promoted to St Louis’ Chief of Police I still remember his interaction with one of my bulldogs, kind and friendly.

    One of our friends from my neighborhood spent a couple of years in local politics and got himself appointed to the Police commissioner board. Soon after he was made president of the Board and he stayed in that position for a few years. He has been to our house several times, granted years ago before he became a big important developer.

    I’m sure Rob would shrivel up into a hyperventilating ball if he had the chief of police or the President of the Police Commission in his living room.
    Last edited by iris lilies; 7-6-19 at 11:21am.

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    Senior Member gimmethesimplelife's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iris lilies View Post
    He has been to our house several times, granted years ago before he became a big important developer.In the 30 years we’ve lived in our urban core, high crime, neighborhood we have had good relations with police officers.


    The most recent long-term relationship we ( DH and me plus any neighbors who are involved in our neighborhood) had was with Officer Brian M. He was assigned to our neighborhood for about eight years. He did his gig on foot, some of his gig on a scooter, and some in a patrol car. We always knew how to reach him via phone or email. Our neighborhood maintains a “substation” for Third district policemen with computer access, snacks, refrigerator, bathroom And this cost around $7000 annually. Officer Brian M. worked closely with our safety committee of the neighborhood.

    We had police appreciation events like picnics in our park or Super Bowl parties where neighborhood people contributed food and officers on the third district swing by during their breaks or their off days. Officer Brian M kept his Third district colleagues informed of the trouble spots in our neighborhood. He became close friends of our friends so he and his wife ended up coming to our neighborhood parties in his off time. I always thought he was pretty laid-back and friendly. He retired recently and the day he retired he let his hair grow and is now down to his shoulders. He is very cute.

    We had a similar relationship with Officer John L a few years prior. Officer John L was assigned to our neighborhood for several years and we developed that same close relationship. He was single! He was big and blond and a hunk, And we all wanted to set him up with a girlfriend. One of many incidents I remember with him was when our neighbor three doors down had something going on at their house, maybe it was a burglar alarm? I don’t remember exactly except it John check that situation over and then walked over to our house to askmhow to contact that neighbor. He knows people on every block, And that was the value in having neighborhood cops. They built relationships with citizens.

    Several years before that, with my friend being the police officer liaison, we had a neighborhood party at our house and the Third district commander came with his wife, and we got to know them on a casual basis. He ended up being promoted to St Louis’ Chief of Police I still remember his interaction with one of my bulldogs, kind and friendly.

    One of our friends from my neighborhood spent a couple of years in local politics and got himself appointed to the Police commissioner board. Soon after he was made president of the Board and he stayed in that position for a few years. He has been to our house several times, granted years ago before he became a big important developer.

    I’m sure Rob would shrivel up into a hyperventilating ball if he had the chief of police or the President of the Police Commission in his living room.
    IL, seriously, in Phoenix - even in higher end areas than my infamous zip code, mind you - we truly do not have this kind of neighborhood relationship with the police. Even in areas that typically don't have the problems with the police that we have had in the 85006. I'm not saying I don't believe you have this kind of working relationship with the police - what I am saying is that is not how things are here, and I'm trying to stress for once that this one is not zip code nor asset/income/wealth specific. It's just done differently here.

    I honestly could not see the Chief of Police here or the President of the Police Commission entering a living room of a Phoenix resident - other than for personal reasons of some type. The social, photo op, pr kind of thing does not happen here very often if at all. Probably no surprise to you that I'm perfectly down with this and see no reason to change this, no?

    As an aside, about the Police Chief in Phoenix, Jeri Williams - the jury is still out but to date she seems to try to be doing something. I am giving her credit for that much to date. Remains to be seen if Phoenix PD misbehavior continues or not, though.......my take is that it's probably going to continue, but for awhile longer, the Phoenix PD will be keeping a low profile. I've noticed since the brouhaha here began that police vehicles driving by me? They just zoom on by and don't stop to look/assess opportunities at predation. Given the very recent nature of this change, I'd say it has to do with police officers being directed to keep a low profile for the time being. Rob

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    Quote Originally Posted by gimmethesimplelife View Post
    IL, seriously, in Phoenix - even in higher end areas than my infamous zip code, mind you - we truly do not have this kind of neighborhood relationship with the police. Even in areas that typically don't have the problems with the police that we have had in the 85006. I'm not saying I don't believe you have this kind of working relationship with the police - what I am saying is that is not how things are here, and I'm trying to stress for once that this one is not zip code nor asset/income/wealth specific. It's just done differently here.

    I honestly could not see the Chief of Police here or the President of the Police Commission entering a living room of a Phoenix resident - other than for personal reasons of some type. The social, photo op, pr kind of thing does not happen here very often if at all. Probably no surprise to you that I'm perfectly down with this and see no reason to change this, no?

    As an aside, about the Police Chief in Phoenix, Jeri Williams - the jury is still out but to date she seems to try to be doing something. I am giving her credit for that much to date. Remains to be seen if Phoenix PD misbehavior continues or not, though.......my take is that it's probably going to continue, but for awhile longer, the Phoenix PD will be keeping a low profile. I've noticed since the brouhaha here began that police vehicles driving by me? They just zoom on by and don't stop to look/assess opportunities at predation. Given the very recent nature of this change, I'd say it has to do with police officers being directed to keep a low profile for the time being. Rob
    I would prefer you not take part in this thread, Rob.

  6. #6
    Senior Member gimmethesimplelife's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldhat View Post
    Yes, demonizing police is certainly not the answer. As someone with police in my family I am probably more sympathetic to them than most "liberals." I've known plenty of cops who are very decent guys. But I've also known some who were complete jerks. Especially when I was a small-town newspaper editor, I encountered plenty of cops who should not have been allowed within shouting distance of a firearm.

    Better recruiting and training would undoubtedly help. My uncle, who is a retired police lieutenant, likes to point out that in Germany, a cop must be a college graduate, who in addition to the police academy receives a full year of close supervision from an experienced officer when he goes on the street.

    I think a big part of the problem is plain fear. This country is so awash in every conceivable type of weapon that cops know any split second of hesitation could be their last. Sensible gun laws would help, although that genie is now so far out of the bottle that it might not make that much difference.
    I can understand to some degree your last paragraph. Due to the damnable second amendment there are an ocean of weapons drowning American society and I can understand where this would cause some fear in the Police. Surprise! I''m capable of some small degree of empathy on this issue - a very small degree. The problem? The police make weapons are vehicle of fear and terror themselves. Without going on and on and on this time, I'll rapidly summarize......about the fear of weapons? This street very much goes two ways, and society needs to focus more on the fear of the public from the Police and their weapons. Rob

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    Old, yes sensible gun laws would help and I like Germany’s requirements to be a police officer. It has always been a tough job and it’s gotten worse. There is no doubt that minorities are being targeted especially black men. If I had black sons I would train them to totally cooperative because you can always take legal action later if you are still alive. Although, in some instances they shoot first so nothing would help. I also have known some good cops through the years.

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    Rob, this thread is not for you.

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    After having worked more than 36 years with (first 10) and for (next 26) I have more positive stories than negative. There are bad cops and they should be dealt with but police in general are hard working people who came to the profession wanting to be of service and do. Police are generally thought of in a negative manner until you need one personally, then there is a high expectation of what is expected in their response and disappointment that things don't work out like the do on TV. They start out bright eyed and bushy tailed and become world weary by the end.
    I can honestly say that it changed my idea on the way things work and how I looked at everything. I've learned to never judge on face value because rarely are things as simple as they seem. I was shocked at the amount of ugliness between people that most are unaware of. The media only reports the sensational which is only a fraction of what is going on. I always encouraged complainers to go out on a ride along to see first hand what was actually going on in their city.
    When I first started in '76 guns rarely came out of the holster. By the time I retired gangs were thoroughly entrenched in our metro area and I can't remember a night with no calls responding to shots fired. One of my good friends was shot in the chest during a traffic stop. I'll never forget how calm he was on the radio as he put out the suspect information and called for cover. I also know several who were put in the position of needing to shoot a suspect. None were ever the same. Believe me, it is not a decision they ever want to have to make. Another friend, a sniper on SWAT had to take a shot where the suspect had a young boy by the throat with a knife. He got the suspect but the boy did not survive. He was overcome by the guilt of the outcome, he now works in another profession. Three I know have committed suicide.

    By and large all I have known came into the profession wanting to serve and did so with honor. I have seen countless acts of compassion and generosity. I have seen professionalism in the face of horror and the private tears that come in the hours and days later. I have seen them keep in contact with the victims for years due to the bonds formed by tragedy. I have seen them marry and divorce, divorce, divorce. It isn't easy to put the job down at the end of the shift. It is no wonder they become their own closed society. They never feel off duty even when off duty. That 24/7 vigilance can take a toll.

    They are human with all that implies but are expected to have the superhuman abilities in extraordinary circumstances. Now the scrutiny is overwhelming. They are leaving the profession in droves. I know several that have jumped over to Fire. My son's father was in patrol, SWAT, detectives, undercover drugs. He left and now works in construction and is happy and relaxed. He looked 10 years younger within months, he doesn't miss it. I sometimes miss being "in the know" but I don't miss the public negativity and the internal departmental stress that it causes. We are next to a large metropolitan city that is having a huge (frightening actually)staffing crisis. They can't get people hired and are now looking at changing the requirements. Good luck with that.

    Hold the bad accountable but recognize that most are good trying to do their best in a profession that has changed radically in a few short years. A little bit of appreciation, kindness and support go a very long way. They do not deserve to be lumped together and painted with the same brush.

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    Thanks for sharing that SM. I had a friend that was a undercover cop in a motorcycle gang for a few years and then worked for the Stockton PD. Eventually he left to do executive protection. The stories he told were unbelievable.

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