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Thread: White dudes and identity politics.

  1. #41
    Senior Member Ultralight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by frugal-one View Post
    Why even vote if you know the person you voted for has no chance to win? Vote for the lesser of 2 evils as in the last election.
    This is why I think Dems voting for the lesser of two evils is a long con. It is not about a conspiracy theory, LDAHL.

    Dem leadership convinces Dems to vote for the lesser of two evils election after election and these Dems think that they will get something other than evil.

    If I vote for a third party candidate and either most evil or less evil get elected, then I know I did not for for evil. So there is a personal element to this.

    But I also think that we can force a bigger change in the future by voting for guys like Bernie.

    It is interesting that the GOP never worries about being forced to vote for the lesser of two evils. Why? Because they prefer to vote for the most evil! haha

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by LDAHL View Post
    I have never thought much of Trump, ethically, ideologically or stylistically. I think he’s bad for America, the Republican Party and the English language. I would choose the right Democrat over him, should the party nominate one of the two or three less ridiculous candidates putting themselves forward.

    But not being a Trump fan does not mean I think that there aren’t even worse choices than Trump out there.

    We will have to disagree to disagree as to whether acting on principle is a waste of time.
    Interesting post. In your opinion, who would be worse than Trump?

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by bae View Post

    The “wasted vote” and “lesser of two evils” tropes have some philosophical and moral issues.
    I don't see how.

  4. #44
    Senior Member jp1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultralight View Post

    It is interesting that the GOP never worries about being forced to vote for the lesser of two evils.
    It's also notable that the media never wrings their hands saying "Oh! This Republican candidate or that Republican candidate is too radical. They need to find someone more moderate or they won't win swing voters." Or, in the rare instance that they do do this, Republican politicians and spin-masters ignore it and go on with their plans. Democrats need to do the same thing. Quit worrying about what beltway prognosticators think and stand up for what they believe is the right thing. That's largely what happened in 2018 and we took 40 house seats. Voters don't seem to be turned off when we talk about issues that actually affect them like healthcare and the minimum wage.

  5. #45
    Senior Member Ultralight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by frugal-one View Post
    I don't see how.
    Then perhaps it is time to reflect on your own morals and philosophies, if you have them.

  6. #46
    Senior Member Ultralight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jp1 View Post
    It's also notable that the media never wrings their hands saying "Oh! This Republican candidate or that Republican candidate is too radical. They need to find someone more moderate or they won't win swing voters." Or, in the rare instance that they do do this, Republican politicians and spin-masters ignore it and go on with their plans. Democrats need to do the same thing. Quit worrying about what beltway prognosticators think and stand up for what they believe is the right thing. That's largely what happened in 2018 and we took 40 house seats. Voters don't seem to be turned off when we talk about issues that actually affect them like healthcare and the minimum wage.
    Good points!

  7. #47
    Senior Member bae's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by frugal-one View Post
    I don't see how.
    Well, as I mentioned, there are some threads on the topic kicking around here, which have pointers to some helpful papers on the matter.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultralight View Post
    Then perhaps it is time to reflect on your own morals and philosophies, if you have them.
    Blow it out your ear!! I was asking a serious question. This is not a question of morals at all. I believe it to be a wasted, mute point to vote for someone you KNOW is not going to win.... a total waste of time IMO.

  9. #49
    Senior Member Ultralight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by frugal-one View Post
    Blow it out your ear!!
    Not nice.

    Quote Originally Posted by frugal-one View Post
    I was asking a serious question.
    And you got a serious answer. You just didn't like it.

    Quote Originally Posted by frugal-one View Post
    This is not a question of morals at all. I believe it to be a wasted, mute point to vote for someone you KNOW is not going to win.... a total waste of time IMO.
    Oh, but it is a question of morals. Voting one's conscience is a moral issue, an ethical issue.

    What you believe is not necessarily factual. Your opinions are not necessarily facts.

    So keep voting for that lesser evil. You know what you will always get? Evil.
    Talk about a waste of time!

  10. #50
    Senior Member jp1's Avatar
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    On the continuum from evil to awesome who gets to determine what’s midlevel evil and what’s merely slightly good but not awesome. Perhaps your lesser of two evils is another persons ‘the perfect is the enemy of the good’

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