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Thread: Has politics replaced religion?

  1. #11
    Senior Member razz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LDAHL View Post
    I think politics is filling a couple of voids.

    One is affiliation. The ¬“bowling alone¬” thesis. As families fracture, traditional forms of civic and social involvement decline and organized religion fades, people turn to politics for an (I think illusory) sense of belonging to a like-minded tribe. Various forms of media make it easy to self-sort in this way.

    Another is meaning. As faith, tradition and other value systems are deconstructed, demeaned and diminished, we are left with the thin gruel of politics as a substitute. We confuse ideology with morality. The self-righteousness of the Moral Majority finds new expression in call out culture.

    In the absence of stronger roots to anchor our sense of self, we can exaggerate politics to the point where we might feel it necessary to terminate relationships. I think that is very sad.
    A good summary of key points.
    Gandhi: Happiness is when what you think, what you say and what you do are in harmony .

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by JaneV2.0 View Post
    Personally, I don't buy that theory. 35% of today's mass murderers* are white male disaffected losers who target various minorities--sometimes, like Timothy McVeigh, using religion--specifically Christianity--as their excuse to kill. Religion, with its iron grip on its adherents, has been a force for evil as much as for good, historically, IMO. And tradition? Doesn't each generation form its own traditions? I might agree that some trends, like America's unslakable greed, are troubling, but if you believe that tattoos, cannabis, individuals living (even bowling!) alone, decline in marriage and birthrates, etc. are a harbinger of doom, I would argue they're just minor adjustments. People will always form family and friendship bonds, determine which values are important to them as a society, over-correct, fall back, and move on.

    Guns don't kill people, but people with military-grade weapons can kill a lot of innocent people quickly, and I'd prefer that not be an option, personally.

    *https://newrepublic.com/article/1526...4J0L2utdNx38Bg
    If each generation makes itís own, itís not tradition itís fashion.

  3. #13
    Senior Member JaneV2.0's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LDAHL View Post
    If each generation makes it’s own, it’s not tradition it’s fashion.
    It's traditional to build on past traditions, letting go of those that no longer serve--like holding witch trials and lynchings--and adding new ones. Maybe mass shootings are the new lynching, in which case I take your point.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by JaneV2.0 View Post
    It's traditional to build on past traditions, letting go of those that no longer serve--like holding witch trials and lynchings--and adding new ones. Maybe mass shootings are the new lynching, in which case I take your point.
    I think the lost, unmoored souls who construct reasons for committing some of these crimes are trying to fill some of the same emptiness as Twitter mobs attacking some perceived infraction or the ideologues who imagine they can re-engineer society if only they are given enough power.

    I am agnostic on the subject of tattoos.

  5. #15
    Senior Member JaneV2.0's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LDAHL View Post
    I think the lost, unmoored souls who construct reasons for committing some of these crimes are trying to fill some of the same emptiness as Twitter mobs attacking some perceived infraction or the ideologues who imagine they can re-engineer society if only they are given enough power.
    ...
    The hate-filled losers who commit these crimes are not unmoored--they're solidly plugged into 4Chan and 8Chan--anonymous sites where they can share their racist, nationalist, misogynistic spew with others of their ilk, as well as inhabiting various FB and Twitter sites. Mental illness is not a factor here. Going to church or going bowling wouldn't help.

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by JaneV2.0 View Post
    The hate-filled losers who commit these crimes are not unmoored--they're solidly plugged into 4Chan and 8Chan--anonymous sites where they can share their racist, nationalist, misogynistic spew with others of their ilk, as well as inhabiting various FB and Twitter sites. Mental illness is not a factor here. Going to church or going bowling wouldn't help.
    Right, lacking anything more substantial in their moral/ethical/social operating system, they fall prey to gimcrack political ideologies. This is happening all over, although not always with the same level of immediate lethality. You might shoot up a Wal-mart or a softball game, or you might just cut yourself off from friends or family.

    People oversimplify the world into a system of victims and villains, and come to believe the worldís problems could be solved by defeating a given ethnic group. Or bankers. Or Catholics. Or the internet or parts thereof. Or individual politicians. Or some competing gimcrack ideology.

    Although I do have to believe that mental illness often enters into it.

  7. #17
    Simpleton Alan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JaneV2.0 View Post
    The hate-filled losers who commit these crimes are not unmoored--they're solidly plugged into 4Chan and 8Chan--anonymous sites where they can share their racist, nationalist, misogynistic spew with others of their ilk, as well as inhabiting various FB and Twitter sites. Mental illness is not a factor here. Going to church or going bowling wouldn't help.
    I read somewhere that the Texas dude was an extreme environmentalist concerned with overpopulation and the number of people coming into a country that couldn't support their numbers. And the Dayton dweeb was an Antifa admirer and Elizabeth Warren supporter. Definitely sounds like mental illness to me.
    "Things should be made as simple as possible, but not one bit simpler." ~ Albert Einstein

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by LDAHL View Post
    I think the lost, unmoored souls who construct reasons for committing some of these crimes are trying to fill some of the same emptiness as Twitter mobs attacking some perceived infraction or the ideologues who imagine they can re-engineer society if only they are given enough power.
    Talk about false equivalence. Someone who mows down 22 (by the latest report) people with an assault rifle is the same as some bunch of politically correct whiners on Twitter?

    Listen to yourself. Yeeesh.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldhat View Post
    Talk about false equivalence. Someone who mows down 22 (by the latest report) people with an assault rifle is the same as some bunch of politically correct whiners on Twitter?

    Listen to yourself. Yeeesh.
    A kid stealing candy is motivated by the same impulse as Bernie Madoff. Itís a difference of degree only.

  10. #20
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    First, to the title question, NO. In my family, both are taboo talking points that have caused problems and will continue to beyond me.

    Second, after watching "The Great Hack" on Netflix and knowing a bit about what I know about data use/mining, etc (just enough to be dangerous, not enough to do it), I wouldn't be surprised if at some point, it could be determined, loose cannons were identified and targeted to make them go unhinged and off the rails.

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