Vegetarian men: Seen as less manly, but more ethical. Your thoughts?

**Zoe Girl** · 9-18-19, 2:20pm

Originally Posted by Greg44

I have been vegetarian for nearly 20 years, off and on 100% plant base. I get flack about it all the time. I use to be nice - but now I just poke back.
The whole eat meat manly thing I find just stupid. And yet they still drink breast milk. whahahahaha

I poke back also, really over it since the first time I stopped eating meat I was 16 (now 52). It is just crap to hear about it all the time. At work I have a chart at the snack table for any food issues of any of the children. When I have subs come out I show them around including that list. I get comments on the vegetarian students often, so I tell them I don't eat meat.

I think next time someone comments that I look young I am going to say veggie instead of meditator

**ApatheticNoMore** · 9-21-19, 12:02pm

My partner pivoted from keto to vegetarian so fast I don't even know what. Me I think ALL I really care about as far as diet is being healthy and maintaining health as best as possible (I limit red meat though so there's my being socially responsible, I suppose. I also try to buy local and avoid most imported produce).

And of course many health problems are not caused by diet and lifestyle, and sometimes other treatments are needed, and sometimes we just live with some aches and pains. It's just as far as diet all I care about is health really. And I lost 6 pounds just by avoiding sugar and wheat, and avoiding added fats, and eating more protein, and exercising more, and being a tiny bit hungry (only a tiny bit), and barely going out to eat (not that I did that much anyway), and being really really bored with my menu, and my body is going to fight me on losing anymore short of a much more extreme diet I think. And I get sick on extreme diets! And I'm tired and no doctor would say I have to lose weight for health anyway, even though I could also be healthy if I did (I'm not too thin or anything), it's just body is fighting me too much to bother at this point. And I'll just try to stay the weight I am now, and my diet is a compromise omnivorous real food often organic diet with very little junk food of any type, ho hum.

**Chicken lady** · 9-21-19, 1:38pm

So Jane, i’m Curious. You say you failed at being an “ethical vegan”. And that currently you think adults should eat as they wish.

does that mean your ethics changed, or that you choose not to judge others by your ethical beliefs? If you ethical stance changed, why? And if not, does that mean you consider your current diet unethical? How does that work in your head - consciously making making the wrong choice? Do you tell yourself “this is unethical, but i’m Ok with doing it?” How does that affect your view of yourself? Or do you feel you have no choice? (Which seems undermined by your comment on the unexplored vegetarian path)

**JaneV2.0** · 9-21-19, 2:35pm

Originally Posted by Chicken lady

So Jane, i’m Curious. You say you failed at being an “ethical vegan”. And that currently you think adults should eat as they wish.

does that mean your ethics changed, or that you choose not to judge others by your ethical beliefs? If you ethical stance changed, why? And if not, does that mean you consider your current diet unethical? How does that work in your head - consciously making making the wrong choice? Do you tell yourself “this is unethical, but i’m Ok with doing it?” How does that affect your view of yourself? Or do you feel you have no choice? (Which seems undermined by your comment on the unexplored vegetarian path)

Animals are going to die in great numbers as long as we have industrial agriculture (didn't I make that point? I meant to), the only animals I saved during my tenure as a vegetarian were the cats i took in; I believe those who say we need ruminants grazing pasture land for the good of the soil; emissions related to animal husbandry are a tiny percentage of those generated by various other "culprits"--maybe 2-3 percent--and even those could be curtailed if we got rid of CAFOS and waste lagoons. Really, "unethical" isn't a word I generally apply to my or others' eating patterns; the best diet for any one of us is one that contributes to our individual health and well-being. I think this aggressive push for all of us to eat soyburgers instead of pastured ruminants will be as disastrous as the seventies' Ancel Keys' "fat is the devil" fad that is still hanging on. If I gave the impression that I thought eating was a matter of ethics, I apologize.

ETA: I went back and reread my original post and thought it was more clearly written than this one. I put "ethical vegetarian" in quotes because my intent in going meatless was to support my health and to somehow save or protect animal life. (Which sounds amazingly naive in retrospect.) After six years or so, I realized better health and the salvation of the animal kingdom were not going to happen.

**Ultralight** · 9-21-19, 2:59pm

I think it is important to note here that what Jane is saying is just her opinion -- things she believes in because she wants to believe in them. Confirmation bias is extraordinarily strong in her. I have never seen it stronger in anyone.