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Thread: Suicide Rates Up in Rural America

  1. #51
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    as one of those last try things, after therapy and medication, lifestyle and social life change etc. (ie conventional advice) sure. Or I think it needs a lot more research to show it's safer than antidepressants which is not entirely without side effects but if that doesn't work sure. Even electroshock is one of those last try things I guess, but the mushrooms are probably safer as ETC is not safe, ketamine maybe too. I just say if people are driven to want suicide by socially constructed circumstances (not inborn depression or being end of life) it says nothing good about society and it is a social problem.

    Pollan's always been a good writer, some of the books were just meant as quick guides (for the nutritionally confused who were too lazy to read Omnivores Dilema) though and I'm sure quite profitable, and not real books, so one isn't going to enjoy his writing style there. Pollan's lasting and ironic impact there was probably just to get people to eat more meat, although grass fed.
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  2. #52
    Senior Member JaneV2.0's Avatar
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    What soured me on Pollan was a presentation wherein he and some foodie friend of his were making a meal of fresh foods and Pollan pointed out how easy the whole process was. Yes, I suppose it was easy for men with elastic schedules and a long history of food preparation to shop for and prepare food in a leisurely fashion--two of them, keep in mind. Very different from the experience of a person who might have worked all day, on her feet, trying to ride herd on children--while simultaneously cleaning, chopping, and cooking, putting in another half hour minimum on her poor, tired feet. I found it a blatant example of elitist myopia.

  3. #53
    Senior Member catherine's Avatar
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    Pollan opened my eyes to the horrific situation with CAFOs and other manufacturing processes used to treat animals like Model T's on a production line. He also opened my eyes to the ubiquity of high fructose corn syrup. I read that book at 36,000 feet on my way to doing research on diabetes. It was in February, Lent was around the corner, and so I decided to give up HFCS for Lent.

    That was the year I learned how to cook, because there was no other way to eat without touching HFCS, or at least there wasn't then. HFCS was in EVERYTHING on the supermarket shelves.

    I still want to read Botany of Desire. I really like him, although, yes, Jane, I agree with you that it's easy to tell people they should grow and cook their own food. That attitudes shines a spotlight on how many people are shut out of "best practices" in nutrition.
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  4. #54
    Senior Member Rogar's Avatar
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    If I were diagnosed with an imminent terminal illness, I would definitely want some sort of additional medical or psychological support. I don't know a lot about antidepressants but all the TV ads say a possible side effect is suicidal thoughts. That puts magic mushrooms therapy in a little better perspective to me. I haven't read Pollen's book, but the other information I've run across stress doing it in a controlled medical environment, which reduces the odds of a bad trip significantly.

  5. #55
    Senior Member JaneV2.0's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rogar View Post
    If I were diagnosed with an imminent terminal illness, I would definitely want some sort of additional medical or psychological support. I don't know a lot about antidepressants but all the TV ads say a possible side effect is suicidal thoughts. That puts magic mushrooms therapy in a little better perspective to me. I haven't read Pollen's book, but the other information I've run across stress doing it in a controlled medical environment, which reduces the odds of a bad trip significantly.
    I've had only a few months' experience with SSRIs--and none with other Pharma psychoactives, but I suspect their ubiquity has a lot to do with the recent epidemic of suicide and suicide attempts (which seem to make up an inordinate amount of calls to police). I also think they have something to do with mass shootings and other mayhem. They may be necessary for some, but I'm under no delusion they're benign, or even particularly helpful for many people.

  6. #56
    Senior Member Teacher Terry's Avatar
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    Anti-depressants have been a life saver for many with depression or anxiety. Many people can’t function without them. I doubt that they are responsible for many suicides.

  7. #57
    Senior Member Ultralight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JaneV2.0 View Post
    What soured me on Pollan was a presentation wherein he and some foodie friend of his were making a meal of fresh foods and Pollan pointed out how easy the whole process was. Yes, I suppose it was easy for men with elastic schedules and a long history of food preparation to shop for and prepare food in a leisurely fashion--two of them, keep in mind. Very different from the experience of a person who might have worked all day, on her feet, trying to ride herd on children--while simultaneously cleaning, chopping, and cooking, putting in another half hour minimum on her poor, tired feet. I found it a blatant example of elitist myopia.
    I think it has more to do with priorities than myopic elitism. haha

  8. #58
    Senior Member Ultralight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teacher Terry View Post
    Anti-depressants have been a life saver for many with depression or anxiety. Many people can’t function without them. I doubt that they are responsible for many suicides.
    Evidence?

  9. #59
    Senior Member JaneV2.0's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultralight View Post
    Evidence?
    British Medical Journal: https://www.bmj.com/content/358/bmj.j3697/rr-4

  10. #60
    Senior Member JaneV2.0's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultralight View Post
    I think it has more to do with priorities than myopic elitism. haha
    Pollan was pretty dismissive and deprecating, too.

    I stand by my assertion where people with families and (particularly) manual labor or 8 hours on your feet-type jobs are concerned.
    Maybe he's less of a putz now that he's "discovered" hallucinogens.

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