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Thread: Impeachment?

  1. #481
    Senior Member Rogar's Avatar
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    That might have been the case early on in the investigation, but now all of the information has pretty been verified. Unfortunately some of the first hand witnesses are being blocked from testifying. I think it's just a diversion for the real issues and one that might endanger the life of the whistle blower, not legally but from some right wing whacko.

  2. #482
    Senior Member herbgeek's Avatar
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    All they needed was someone willing to say they heard something through the grapevine and then they could manipulate public opinion through a willing press and a large percentage of the population willing to believe gossip as proof
    Alan, is it possible in your universe, that what the whistleblower heard was just so outrageous and over the line, that they felt they had to speak up? And they had to speak up because the others closer to the events are intimidated (for good reason, look at Trump's tweets on Friday during the proceedings)?

    Its possible that there was political motivation, but its also possible that there wasn't.

    Edited to add: and even IF bias exists, facts could also be true. Its not necessarily one or the other.
    Last edited by herbgeek; 11-16-19 at 5:14pm.

  3. #483
    Senior Member JaneV2.0's Avatar
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    When I hear "whistle blower" I think of Karen Silkwood. It's obvious to me why protections exist for these brave souls. Naturally, there are always powerful people who want to continue their dirty deeds unmolested.

    Deep Throat's identity wasn't revealed for years after he passed information along to intrepid reporters Woodward and Bernstein, who pursued the lead. IMO, Republicans are just spewing their usual obfuscatory fog. It works a treat on their base.

    And of course none of the principals are responding to subpoenas*, so it may take some time to get the whole truth.

    *How they get away with that is a mystery to me.

  4. #484
    Senior Member jp1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan View Post
    I think the request to interview the whistleblower comes from the desire to see how much involvement Mr Schiff's office had in identifying and encouraging a person willing to initiate an official inquiry based upon things they heard from a friend who heard from a friend, for the continuing purpose of invalidating an election.
    So are you saying that if the whistleblower was some sort of democratic plant, and that's a big if considering that everything he alleged has now been corroborated by multiple other people, that we should ignore all the evidence that's turned up in the meantime?

    Honestly I'm not surprised that you doubt their, or any/all of the other witnesses, integrity. The republicans have basically come to the conclusion that no democrat can be an honorable american and that anyone who disagrees with them must be a democrat even if they claim not to be.

  5. #485
    Senior Member JaneV2.0's Avatar
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    I think prominent Republicans are so blinded by greed that the end always justifies the means. I knew people in school like that--they'd cheat even when they didn't need to, just to keep their edge. They think Democrats are suspect because they don't believe honorable people exist--and they don't, in their world.

    I believe there are honorable Republicans, but they've been marginalized. I hope they make a comeback when this is all over.

  6. #486
    Simpleton Alan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jp1 View Post
    So are you saying that if the whistleblower was some sort of democratic plant, and that's a big if considering that everything he alleged has now been corroborated by multiple other people, that we should ignore all the evidence that's turned up in the meantime? .
    No, I guess I'm saying that the long awaited Mueller investigation didn't provide the goods and Mr Schiff had to look elsewhere and that all the corroboration is based on 2nd and 3rd hand reports. I would hope that anyone accused of anything would deserve better than that.

    Honestly I'm not surprised that you doubt their, or any/all of the other witnesses, integrity. The republicans have basically come to the conclusion that no democrat can be an honorable american and that anyone who disagrees with them must be a democrat even if they claim not to be.
    I suppose its sort of like being accused of being a Trump supporter (and using that term as a pejorative) if you'd rather see hard and fast facts rather than speculation and third hand accounts.
    "Things should be made as simple as possible, but not one bit simpler." ~ Albert Einstein

  7. #487
    Senior Member JaneV2.0's Avatar
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    Unless you had actually read the Mueller report, which lists some ten examples of Russian involvement with Trump's campaign--if you only went by the sound bites provided by Fox and others--I can see where you'd think there was no meat in that sandwich. I trust the investigation is ongoing, and that it will all be spelled out with clarity that can't be denied. Mueller did us a great disservice in not testifying fully, and foolishly trusting that Americans would actually read his report.

  8. #488
    Simpleton Alan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JaneV2.0 View Post
    Unless you had actually read the Mueller report, which lists some ten examples of Russian involvement with Trump's campaign--if you only went by the sound bites provided by Fox and others--I can see where you'd think there was no meat in that sandwich.
    Ha ha, I see what you did there, we deplorables aren't as dense as you might assume but I do appreciate the effort. It may pay off in some circles but overall it does more good by bolstering others.

    I know it's disappointing but not even Adam Schiff could find anything helpful in the report since not being exonerated of obstruction doesn't equal being guilty of obstruction. Using it's findings as a basis for impeachment would be a waste of time and effort. Those two years of work and the buildup to an unsatisfying conclusion make it the Warren Commission report for this generation, and believe me, there are still people convinced JFK was killed by his own government.
    "Things should be made as simple as possible, but not one bit simpler." ~ Albert Einstein

  9. #489
    Senior Member jp1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan View Post
    No, I guess I'm saying that the long awaited Mueller investigation didn't provide the goods and Mr Schiff had to look elsewhere and that all the corroboration is based on 2nd and 3rd hand reports. I would hope that anyone accused of anything would deserve better than that.
    So in other words you're just upset that trump got caught? Because otherwise I still don't understand why it matters that we learn who the whistleblower is when at this point it's clear that he or she knew what the eff they were talking about.

    Personally I care way more about having a criminal president be brought to justice then I do about the political leanings of the person that brought attention of his wrongdoing to light. If trump hadn't done anything wrong the whistleblower's allegations would have been found to be false and we would all be going on with our lives.

  10. #490
    Simpleton Alan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jp1 View Post
    So in other words you're just upset that trump got caught?
    No, but thanks for playing, you guys crack me up.
    "Things should be made as simple as possible, but not one bit simpler." ~ Albert Einstein

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