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Thread: Impeachment?

  1. #411
    Simpleton Alan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iris lilies View Post
    I’m sad to think that Trump will probably beat her.
    You'd think that a Trump loss would be inevitable, and yet I honestly believe if the Democrats nominate Warren or Sanders they're effectively sealing the deal on another 4 years of liberals in agony. I'll have a hard time not reminding some here that "I told you so".
    "Things should be made as simple as possible, but not one bit simpler." ~ Albert Einstein

  2. #412
    Senior Member catherine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan View Post
    You'd think that a Trump loss would be inevitable, and yet I honestly believe if the Democrats nominate Warren or Sanders they're effectively sealing the deal on another 4 years of liberals in agony. I'll have a hard time not reminding some here that "I told you so".
    Who? Biden? I don't think so. Then you have some good potential candidates in the lower tier, but their numbers are in the single digit. No one has risen above in that second tier.

    Now, in RealClearPolitics, the polls show that in Iowa, Bernie is the only one that shows a positive win vs Trump. https://www.realclearpolitics.com/ep...ders-6788.html

    So, I also would not underestimate the power of the more progressive arm of the Democratic Party to fare better than the "middlin'" Democrats. People want change. That's how Trump got elected.
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  3. #413
    Simpleton Alan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by catherine View Post
    Who? Biden? I don't think so. Then you have some good potential candidates in the lower tier, but their numbers are in the single digit. No one has risen above in that second tier.
    I agree with you on Biden, but as of today Buttigieg has passed Sanders in Iowa according to the latest Suffolk University/USA Today poll. https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...ll/4025797002/
    "Things should be made as simple as possible, but not one bit simpler." ~ Albert Einstein

  4. #414
    Senior Member JaneV2.0's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by catherine View Post
    ...
    So, I also would not underestimate the power of the more progressive arm of the Democratic Party to fare better than the "middlin'" Democrats. People want change. That's how Trump got elected.
    Oh God, yes. For years I voted for anyone but the "anointed" of either party. Finally, the Democrats are showing actual progressive ideas, and I hope this is a move away from the Fascist and Republican Lite choices we've been stuck with for decades now. As Warren Buffet famously said “There’s class warfare, all right, but it’s my class, the rich class, that’s making war, and we’re winning.” I'm too old to emigrate; I'd like to actually see "government of the people, by the people, and for the people" realized in my lifetime.

  5. #415
    Senior Member Rogar's Avatar
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    Campaign promises are notoriously over ambitious. I'm undecided on how realistic the Democratic progressives are, as much as I like or dislike them. We've gone through Obama, Hillary and Trump backlashes that have divided politics, like maybe at least since Nixon. I'd like to see a candidate that runs on the bring America together again platform, with BATA hats even. So far the moderates are in a better position for that than the progressives. And that means a higher probability of getting more done.

  6. #416
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    I'd like to see a candidate that runs on the bring America together again platform, with BATA hats even. So far the moderates are in a better position for that than the progressives. And that means a higher probability of getting more done.
    What decent bills does ANYONE realistically see Dem candidate x and Republicans working together on? Because I see almost none where it would realistically happen. An infrastructure bill maybe. And they could probably do that under Trump, if they wanted to (I do understand not wanting to help Trump, Republicans can play that game too though and have). Perhaps they could do something about opiates (but really again, even the Trump admin has passed some laws there). But even "moderate" Dems who want to expand the ACA would not get a compromise with Republicans who want to get rid of the ACA (it passed without a single Republican vote - so this shows how popular their positions will NOT be with Republican lawmakers - they will go nowhere there). And Obama wanted to compromise as much as anyone possibly could, but what came of it? So what exactly is going to get done with Dems and Republicans working together? You can't get anything done via compromising if only one side is willing to compromise, because compromise implies working together, not just giving one party everything they want and getting nothing. Better to just pick someone who won't win over the Republican lawmakers (none of them will), but if they don't have congress will do what they can with administrative staffing, executive orders etc. etc.. Afterall Trump does. And that can do some real good, whereas the capacity to achieve much through compromise seems quite limited.

    For winning there is some case to be made a moderate might be better, it might be the over 65 vote that is needed to win (they are most likely to vote) and Biden and Buttigieg pull in older voters (Warren pulls some too). Most under 40 will yawn to the polls but they aren't as reliable voters anyway.
    If you want something to get done, ask a busy person. If you want them to have a nervous breakdown that is.

  7. #417
    Senior Member jp1's Avatar
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    As long as the mitch mcconnell wing of the republican party is in charge the chances of bipartisan anything are precisely zero. Any democrat who tries will be as successful as obama was.

  8. #418
    Senior Member Rogar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ApatheticNoMore View Post
    What decent bills does ANYONE realistically see Dem candidate x and Republicans working together on...
    It sounds to me like you are saying any proposal requiring legislation, or at least the big progressive ones like health care, global warming, college education assistance, etc. are bound to fail regardless of the campaign promises and the candidate. I'm more hopeful.

  9. #419
    Senior Member gimmethesimplelife's Avatar
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    Though at this point I still support impeachment and my.plans for a Middle Eastern Buffet to celebrate- seriously, I worry. I just read the latest article on The Economic Collapse Blog - admittedly a Conservative gloom pirn site - that did mention the possibility of instability - economic and violence, should Trump be impeached.

    I can have my Buffet, dress temporarily above my station, mingle at the neighborhood block party - that's all great but it doesn't address issues of violence or of economic decline. Rob

  10. #420
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    It sounds to me like you are saying any proposal requiring legislation, or at least the big progressive ones like health care, global warming, college education assistance, etc. are bound to fail regardless of the campaign promises and the candidate.
    If Republicans control part of congress yes. I don't think progressives would actually be unwilling to sign on to a bill improving things that they see as moving in a good directions even if it isn't everything they want, anymore than moderates will (in fact someone like Sanders has a record of precisely that). I just don't see such bills happening in a divided congress.

    Now is someone is able to flip congress with coattails etc. ... Also some have plans kinda sorta, Bernie Sanders said his plan would be to have rallies for Medicare for All to try to get enough citizens to pressure congress. It may not work, but it's more probable than expecting Republicans to cooperate just because whoever wins seems like a nice guy/gal.

    I mean we have records here. healthcare, Republican lawmakers oppose the ACA, medicaid expansion etc.. This isn't big single payer dreams. In fact the INSURANCE COMPANIES, favor the ACA, they favor it very much over it's repeal, not just over an obvious threat like single payer. They do not like the Trump changes, at all. And still ... corporate money doesn't even win there, hard as it is to believe. Global warming, it's nearly impossible to even get Dems to do the right thing in any significant way. Dem states talk a good talk and do some good things, and yet move ahead with new fossil fuel projects (it's not that Republicans would be better, they wouldn't). So when it's so hard to move the needle with your average Dem politician, and this state is deep blue and new fossil fuel projects are planned, maybe it's possible R lawmakers have a great conversion moment (I have no idea what it would take), but it hasn't happened yet.
    If you want something to get done, ask a busy person. If you want them to have a nervous breakdown that is.

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