I wish I'd never been born: the rise of the anti-natalists

[ToomuchStuff]

But if life is truly a painful imposition, why come down on the affirmative side of Hamlet’s question? Is it simply fear of the transition process from living to dead? Concern for those left behind? Further, if living is such a miserable state of being, is killing another person (born or unborn or merely hypothetical) a potentially positive and moral act?

Does it have to be just one reason?
Life can be a lot more complex then that.

I can wish I had never been born, based on things such as being told that I am here, because of rape and a failed abortion attempt, long before legal abortion, and how I shouldn't be here. (by some parts of family) Then told how much I remind them of criminal elements in the family, that they taught you the skills to kill if it ever came to it, yet those same skills, they then compare you to what they taught you to fear. I see no reason to have kids that your going to horsewhip the evil out of them, yet still tell them they will always be evil? I only saw the need for self removal, if I ever actually became the danger, that family has told me I would be. That wouldn't even deal with the fact most suicides, tend to leave stuff that the family will have to deal with, such as clean up, etc (emotional scars on them, certainly, there are those that are innocent in this)

[catherine]

I think IL said it.. when it comes to life, it is what it is. It kind of gets to my avatar: "This is it." Now that I think about it, that's exactly how I look at life in 3 words. That's why I chose that saying.

[happystuff]

Finally able to get back to this and all the comments are so interesting and thought-provoking. I think, personally, I'm in the camp of "Life is change". I change, my situation changes, people around me change, the world changes. I have been fortunate enough to adapt and adjust as best I can for myself to keep living this life.

pinkytoe said above, "The world is full of darkness and misery with glimmers of light and beauty. I remain in awe and fascinated by all of it."

While I don't totally disagree with this, I prefer to try to keep the perspective of, "The world is full of light and beauty with glimmers of darkness and misery." I, too, remain in awe and am fascinated by all of it.

[JaneV2.0]

That fewer people are reproducing seems like good news, but society will have to deal with the fallout from that until AI obviates the need for workers. I certainly can't get all hand-wringy about the prospect of fewer people, not that I'll be here to experience such (or will I?)

I've known a few people whose default setting is that the world is an irredeemably terrible place. I try not to spend too much time around habitual crepe-hangers, or even the less dramatic pessimists, because I don't want to be dragged into that world. Depression or not, I'd rather spend my time in the light.

[LDAHL]

Does it have to be just one reason?
Life can be a lot more complex then that.

It can. Spite or defiance can be perfectly legitimate if not particularly pleasant reasons to go on living.

[ApatheticNoMore]

I think IL said it.. when it comes to life, it is what it is. It kind of gets to my avatar: "This is it." Now that I think about it, that's exactly how I look at life in 3 words. That's why I chose that saying.

That's what I think, only I can't see why that's not perfectly compatible with not having kids including for anti-natalists reasons among others (such belief one would be a bad parent etc.)

[JaneV2.0]

I've never understood pressuring others to have children. I would think the best-case scenario would be that every child born was very much wanted by their parents. The world would certainly be a less fraught place if this were so.

[Teacher Terry]

Jane, I totally agree. Some people want to be grandparents and pressure their kids. It’s so wrong.

[happystuff]

I've never understood pressuring others to have children. I would think the best-case scenario would be that every child born was very much wanted by their parents. The world would certainly be a less fraught place if this were so.

I never could understand why it was anyone else's business who had children and who didn't, and why or why not.

Being an adoptive parent, I would change your best-case scenario just a little - that every child born was very much wanted - be that by birth parents or not.

[catherine]

I don't want to stay stuck on suffering, because ANM and Geila are right.. suffering ruins lives and creates despair and hopelessness--the same hopelessness that leads people to believe people shouldn't even be born. I don't want to minimize that horrible experience, which is real.

But it so happens that I've been watching Finding Joe, about Joseph Campbell. He was so amazing at overlaying the "hero's journey" mythology over all of our lives.

One of the speakers in the films said this:

"I think it's tricky to afford a proof in our life. The proofs exist in our ability to transcend the worst thing that has happened to us. My proof is I was abused as a little boy. It was the worst thing ever. It went on for a very long time. I was very young. And, uh, I'm who I am because of that. I had to accept that, and acknowledge that, and forgive, and all the terrible things that come with that, I had to tell my parents and all that that comes from that....but from that most difficult thing came a kind of understanding. I get high marks on compassion. I wouldn't wish it on anybody, but it's part of what made me me. So the truth is, it's not what happens to us, it's what we do with it."

"No death, no life. No death, no transformation."
"You will learn to keep dying."

It's such a great movie, if you like Joseph Campbell.

"Follow your biiss."