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Thread: I wish I'd never been born: the rise of the anti-natalists

  1. #21
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    Second, I actually remembered where I saw that "suffering is like gas" quote--it was from Man's Search for Meaning by Viktor Frankl. He of all people has suffering street cred, so I stand by that point of view:
    but he is NOT all people
    If you want something to get done, ask a busy person. If you want them to have a nervous breakdown that is.

  2. #22
    Senior Member catherine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ApatheticNoMore View Post
    but he is NOT all people
    It's just his opinion about suffering--not just his own.
    "Do any human beings ever realize life while they live it--every, every minute?" Emily Webb, Our Town
    www.silententry.wordpress.com

  3. #23
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    None of us choose to be here (unless one believes in karma/new age beliefs); the bad/sad thing is when the circumstances into which one is born are not conducive to helping one have a satisfying life. I guess I am more in the camp of believing that our very existence is sort of miraculous. Just think of all your ancestors who survived long enough to produce the human that is uniquely you. The world is full of darkness and misery with glimmers of light and beauty. I remain in awe and fascinated by all of it.

  4. #24
    Senior Member Geila's Avatar
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    Viktor Frankl also said this:

    “On the average, only those prisoners could keep alive who, after years of trekking from camp to camp, had lost all scruples in their fight for existence; they were prepared to use every means, honest and otherwise, even brutal force, theft, and betrayal of their friends, in order to save themselves. We who have come back, by the aid of many lucky chances or miracles - whatever one may choose to call them - we know: the best of us did not return.”

    And it's this quote that has resonated with me since I read it years ago

  5. #25
    Senior Member razz's Avatar
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    I have to confess that I don't understand the view in the OP unless one is in utterly desperate circumstances. Otherwise, if one thinks in terms of "oh, poor me", life will reflect that.

    It is not about 'me' at all, IMO, it is about how I can serve and utilize my life and skills to benefit others . I have a rescue puppy that is now safe and content, a friend who can safely vent when life gets in the way, a little boy with challenges that I mentor weekly, flowers that I grow and beautify a neighbourhood, paintings that I create that bring joy, car rides for those who are not as able to do so...
    Add in gorgeous music, art like the Rubens exhibit at the Art Gallery of Ontario at present, Metopera HD productions, great theatre, - so much to enjoy.
    Gandhi: Happiness is when what you think, what you say and what you do are in harmony .

  6. #26
    Senior Member iris lilies's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by razz View Post
    I have to confess that I don't understand the view in the OP unless one is in utterly desperate circumstances. Otherwise, if one thinks in terms of "oh, poor me", life will reflect that.

    It is not about 'me' at all, IMO, it is about how I can serve and utilize my life and skills to benefit others . I have a rescue puppy that is now safe and content, a friend who can safely vent when life gets in the way, a little boy with challenges that I mentor weekly, flowers that I grow and beautify a neighbourhood, paintings that I create that bring joy, car rides for those who are not as able to do so...
    Add in gorgeous music, art like the Rubens exhibit at the Art Gallery of Ontario at present, Metopera HD productions, great theatre, - so much to enjoy.
    On the contrary, I think my life IS completely about me. It’s my job as a living person to make the most of it. I get to define what “make the most of it” is, I get to define what is meaningful.

    I think it is entirely reasonable to weigh the suffering vs. joy/contentment in your life ( the generic you) and come up with a negative number. In that case, if you arent up for suicide, you need to try harder to live a life that IS meaningful.
    I think of Mother Teresa powering through her years of religious doubt. She probably wasn’t joyful about much of it in the dark days when she lost her faith.

  7. #27
    Senior Member Geila's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by razz View Post
    I have to confess that I don't understand the view in the OP unless one is in utterly desperate circumstances. Otherwise, if one thinks in terms of "oh, poor me", life will reflect that.

    It is not about 'me' at all, IMO, it is about how I can serve and utilize my life and skills to benefit others . I have a rescue puppy that is now safe and content, a friend who can safely vent when life gets in the way, a little boy with challenges that I mentor weekly, flowers that I grow and beautify a neighbourhood, paintings that I create that bring joy, car rides for those who are not as able to do so...
    Add in gorgeous music, art like the Rubens exhibit at the Art Gallery of Ontario at present, Metopera HD productions, great theatre, - so much to enjoy.
    Many people who have suffered, particularly long-term trauma and especially childhood trauma during developmental stages, lose the ability to experience the joy and contentment that you describe and are lucky enough to enjoy. Imagine living at the bottom of a dark well, where you are cut-off, and from which there is no escape.

    It's easy enough to say that it's simply a choice, when you are able to make that choice. But when you can't make that choice, no matter how hard you try, it's a different thing altogether.

  8. #28
    Senior Member iris lilies's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geila View Post
    Many people who have suffered, particularly long-term trauma and especially childhood trauma during developmental stages, lose the ability to experience the joy and contentment that you describe and are lucky enough to enjoy. Imagine living at the bottom of a dark well, where you are cut-off, and from which there is no escape.

    It's easy enough to say that it's simply a choice, when you are able to make that choice. But when you can't make that choice, no matter how hard you try, it's a different thing altogether.
    Yes, I can see that for severe trauma and brain chemicals that influence thinking that way.

  9. #29
    Senior Member JaneV2.0's Avatar
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    I'm happy to be here. My life has been mostly a waste of time and flesh, and I would rather have been born a bit later, but all in all, it hasn't been awful. I hope I remember all the mistakes I've made--and don't revisit them--if I get another go-round.

  10. #30
    Senior Member Teacher Terry's Avatar
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    I have had a few friends lose children and although the suffering never goes away they are glad to be alive and glad that they had those children while they did. I have seen people struggle to live and want it with every fiber of their being. I think in general in this country it's a gift. In a very poor war torn country probably not so much.

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