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Thread: Silly, but eye-opening info-graphic

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultralight View Post
    How can I put this tactfully? For a person to change their mind they have to be open to new information and evidence. If they don't think evidence matters or if they think new information is something to pathologically avoid, then no new info or evidence has a chance of changing their mind. Just something to think about, not referring to anyone specific here.
    Oops - responded to the wrong post. Sorry!!! LOL.
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  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rogar View Post
    I don't know, maybe it's a tie. Bill does look a little rough these days.
    I will be honest and say that I haven't seen a recent picture of Bill Clinton.
    To give pleasure to a single heart by a single act is better than a thousand heads bowing in prayer." Mahatma Gandhi

    Be nice whenever possible. It's always possible. - Dalai Lama

  3. #43
    Senior Member Rogar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JaneV2.0 View Post
    Ancel Keys kicked it off with his Seven Countries "study," where he eliminated the countries that didn't fit his narrative, and we've lived with the result for decades.
    I put Keys criticism into the same category as conspiracy theory, but diet and nutrition are not a hard a science and there are fringe groups. There apparently are carnivores who eat nothing but meat, fruictarians, and breathairians and I suppose they all claim some sort of psuedo science. We have choices, at least. How people deal with their own personal health and diet is of little concern to me other than wanting people to be healthy. When it comes to what is a more sustainable diet for the environment, I do have some strong opinions. A brief from wiki.

    Ancel Benjamin Keys (January 26, 1904 – November 20, 2004) was an American physiologist who studied the influence of diet on health. In particular, he hypothesized that dietary saturated fat causes cardiovascular heart disease and should be avoided. Modern dietary recommendations by health organizations,[1][2] systematic reviews,[3] and national health agencies[4][5][6][7][8][9][10][11] corroborate this.

  4. #44
    Senior Member Ultralight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rogar View Post
    I put Keys criticism into the same category as conspiracy theory, but diet and nutrition are not a hard a science and there are fringe groups. There apparently are carnivores who eat nothing but meat, fruictarians, and breathairians. Even vegans like me. We have choices, at least. A brief from wiki.

    Ancel Benjamin Keys (January 26, 1904 – November 20, 2004) was an American physiologist who studied the influence of diet on health. In particular, he hypothesized that dietary saturated fat causes cardiovascular heart disease and should be avoided. Modern dietary recommendations by health organizations,[1][2] systematic reviews,[3] and national health agencies[4][5][6][7][8][9][10][11] corroborate this.
    You read Blue Zones 2, right? It is the sequel to Dan Buettner's first book, Blue Zones, about the longest living people in the world. In the first Blue Zones Dan profiled several communities of people who live to be 100 and explained that their diets were largely vegetarian.

    But then he went back and found even more communities in other parts of the world that eat the carnivore diet, or a close approximation of it, like keto-style or extreme low carb diets. And he found that in these "ultra blue zones" people actually live to 110 or even 120! Pretty amazing stuff. Right!?!!?

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultralight View Post
    You read Blue Zones 2, right? It is the sequel to Dan Buettner's first book, Blue Zones, about the longest living people in the world. In the first Blue Zones Dan profiled several communities of people who live to be 100 and explained that their diets were largely vegetarian.

    But then he went back and found even more communities in other parts of the world that eat the carnivore diet, or a close approximation of it, like keto-style or extreme low carb diets. And he found that in these "ultra blue zones" people actually live to 110 or even 120! Pretty amazing stuff. Right!?!!?
    I haven't read either one of these so maybe I should just stay out of this but.... what if the longevity is not due to diet? What if it is attitude, genes, stress levels, happiness levels, etc? Something other than diet or something greater than, but in addition to, diet.

    Just a thought.
    To give pleasure to a single heart by a single act is better than a thousand heads bowing in prayer." Mahatma Gandhi

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  6. #46
    Senior Member JaneV2.0's Avatar
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    The anti-saturated fat battleship is turning slowly, probably due to the profitability of industrial seed oils.

    https://www.webmd.com/heart-disease/...ary-fats-q-a#1

    IMO, "nutrition science" has little to do with science, and lots to do with marketing. And I'm far from the only one who thinks so.

    The bottom line is different people have differing responses to food, and whole unadulterated natural foods in some combination are best for most of us.

    ETA: From the article:

    Researchers looked at 72 published studies on fats and heart disease. The studies involved more than 600,000 people from 18 countries. Some people already had heart disease, while others did not. The researchers reanalyzed the results, an approach called a meta-analysis.

    They looked at whether different fats helped or hurt your heart. The different fats included:

    Saturated fats (found in meats, whole-fat dairy products, and baked goods)

    Polyunsaturated fats, such as omega-3 and omega-6 (found in fish, nuts, seeds, and vegetable oils)

    Monounsaturated fats (found in olive and canola oils)

    Trans fats (found in fried foods and baked goods, and being phased out of the food supply)

    The surprise? Saturated fats, long thought to raise heart disease risks, had no effect. Neither did monounsaturated fats, which are thought to help the heart, says study researcher Dariush Mozaffarian, MD, at the Harvard School of Public Health.

    Which fats did have an effect? Trans fats, known to raise bad cholesterol and lower good cholesterol, were linked with a higher risk of heart disease, as expected. Omega-3s from food helped. Omega-6s appeared to help.

    Then the defenders of the decades-long lie that saturated fats cause heart disease (instead of widespread inflammation as current research seems to show), jump in to defend the status quo. After all, they've been spouting this foolishness for years, and don't want to lose funding at this late date.

  7. #47
    Senior Member Rogar's Avatar
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    I read the first one but have never heard of the other Blue Zone. I think he weighs pretty heavily on lifestyle, along with diet, like sense of community and staying active. It's not just diet. It's probably no secret that a diet heavy in carbs is not good. I suspect people who are especially physically active burn fat rather than store it and in those cases maybe the mainstream rules don't follow, but I really don't know.

  8. #48
    Senior Member Ultralight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rogar View Post
    I read the first one but have never heard of the other Blue Zone. I think he weighs pretty heavily on lifestyle, along with diet, like sense of community and staying active. It's not just diet. It's probably no secret that a diet heavy in carbs is not good. I suspect people who are especially physically active burn fat rather than store it and in those cases maybe the mainstream rules don't follow, but I really don't know.
    There is no Blue Zones 2 about carnivores. I made that up. A little satire.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by JaneV2.0 View Post
    The bottom line is different people have differing responses to food, and whole unadulterated natural foods in some combination are best for most of us.
    I agree.

    But I do think that "whole unadulterated natural foods in some combination" are not always that easy for everyone to obtain.
    To give pleasure to a single heart by a single act is better than a thousand heads bowing in prayer." Mahatma Gandhi

    Be nice whenever possible. It's always possible. - Dalai Lama

  10. #50
    Senior Member Ultralight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by happystuff View Post
    I agree.

    But I do think that "whole unadulterated natural foods in some combination" are not always that easy for everyone to obtain.
    Not easy, but also not impossible. And it is far more accessible than people think for the vast majority of Americans.

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